S3 E3: Byte: The internet of lots of things

0:00Hello and welcome to this episode of the Dayton Podcast.

0:02Uh Ravi, how are you doing?

0:03I'm good.

0:04I'm well I'm I'm not being blown away because of Storm Kiara, which I can see from my window right now and have been like absolutely tipping it down all day.

0:11So luckily I'm in all indoors all day, so I am I'm ground.

0:14Amazing, amazing.

0:16I ran with ra I ran I ran with Toby uh this morning in the wind.

0:18We wanted to get out before the rain came with the wind as well.

0:21So we we got out.

0:22We knew it was windy and boy it was windy.

0:25It was so windy.

0:25I think most of the run Toby was pulling me through, uh basically.

0:30I saw already called Tidbit this morning.

0:31So um London to New York.

0:33was done in record time this morning.

0:35Wow.

0:35Due to the wind.

0:36So it was four hours and fifty-six minutes on a nine-hour flight.

0:41So

0:41That was a bit ridiculous.

0:43Um literally pushing the plane along.

0:46Exactly, exactly.

0:46And it sort of makes you think like, hang on a second, is it a good thing or a bad thing?

0:50Like 'cause obviously if I if I'm a pilot, I'm like, man, I could make this in a sub five

0:55Uh and and then you it's a challenge, right?

0:57So maybe it's it's I wonder if pilots have that sort of ego or whether they do think of the whole, you know, they've got what 200 passengers on board

1:05Well it it's also it's also um you know if they arrive you know five hours early for their you know landing thing then everything at the arrival end is is is completely messed up.

1:13So it's probably a a nightmare to be honest.

1:14honest.

1:15Um and that that as well, you probably not use as much fuel.

1:17So when you arrive at the uh destination you have to do some uh basically circuits to burn the fuel that you weren't you weren't supposed to have before you land.

1:24I know this because I watched too many YouTube videos and this is actually one of them, how basically as soon as a plane takes off, it can't just land immediately.

1:31It has to burn a certain amount of fuel before

1:33touch us down.

1:33So there you go it's pointless fight for the day.

1:35There we go.

1:36I mean this luck luckily it's not the aviation podcast.

1:38It's data.

1:39Absolutely so absolutely.

1:41But yeah we're we're in episode three of season three and today we're talking about the internet of lots of things, right?

1:46Yeah.

1:47It the the the title comes from one of my favorite Twitter accounts, which is the Internet of Shit, basically.

1:52Yeah.

1:52Um which which is fantastic because it sort of shows you pictures of fridges with the Windows errors and all the

1:57this stuff which is it's good fun but then you start thinking uh and there's a there's a lot of a lot of things to talk about here and a lot of things to cover.

2:04Right, right.

2:04Let's touch on uh data ethics.

2:06Uh we released that episode

2:08Uh last week was it?

2:09I think I was where you're on Safari.

2:10Yeah, Gwillem um Gwillem uh yeah we recorded it actually before you went away, but we released it last week.

2:15And um yeah, no, that was a really good episode.

2:17We had lots of sort of good feedback as well about that and and how

2:20sort of, you know, it's starting to trigger some people's thoughts on that.

2:23Um it also made me think a bit about sort of, you know, the way we work a little bit more.

2:26So it's it's really useful sort of episode to reflect.

2:29Yeah, I think those things are always it once they're on your mind, they they that that's the point, right?

2:33Like it's just to make you be aware and consider it while working or doing anything that that's somewhat relevant.

2:39So

2:39Yeah, exactly.

2:40Exactly.

2:40So no, very good.

2:42Um I encourage you to take another listen on um your podcast player of choice.

2:46Um but you know, what are things, Ravi?

2:48What

2:48When we talk about internet of things, what things are we talking about?

2:50So I think that a nice place to start here is is talking about smartphones.

2:53Smartphones are the in original internet of thing, the thing of the internet

2:57Right.

2:57The original thing, yeah.

2:58Yeah, exactly, because it's in uh the original thing is such a broad concept you'd have to go back to stonemasons and all that stuff.

3:04But let's let's think about is the concept of the original thing that connected to the internet that wasn't a computer or personal

3:10Like a laptop or can be something that we had on our persons at all times.

3:14Um I think the uh one of the really interesting thing um videos I I I watched, which was by a guy called Marcus Brownlee, uh MKBHD

3:22uh who's done HD review videos on YouTube since he was like 13 or something ridiculous.

3:27Um so he he did a uh video which was Are We At Peak Smartphone

3:31Uh and the question here is uh are smartphones gonna get that much better or are we just stuck in it stuck in the mud a bit?

3:37I think the a really good analogy he brought into that uh was cars.

3:40You know, there there isn't gonna be a better car like

3:43You can maybe talk about the Tesla super van and just electric cars as a different innovation, but we are we no one would say like okay cool we're at peak car.

3:51Like I mean a car is a car, it gets you from A to B.

3:53It's got four wheels and and a channel

3:55and all that stuff.

3:56But every improvement every year is is marginal.

3:59I think that's where we are with smartphones.

4:01I mean I don't think I'm upgrading my smartphone for at least another year or two

4:04that there's no unless there's that massive thing I'm like oh man I really need that but even then I'm just sort of like as long as it works does everything I need it to is somewhat fast and can last

4:13minimum the whole day.

4:15I'm good.

4:15Yeah, I think I think there's a it's an interesting sort of discussion point because when you talk about that, you're talking mostly about the hardware features, right?

4:21So the camera, the battery, the

4:23touchscreen.

4:24There's not much more you can really squeeze into them.

4:26However, on the other hand, the software is far from, you know, uh at at a comparable level.

4:31I think it was

4:31Uh there's so many bugs that come out every year when the i iOS is updated.

4:35Um there's some very good examples or Android, yeah.

4:37Uh there's some very good examples where it's very clear the software could run so much better because for a lot of the you know software and technology

4:44we use today, uh the software still isn't optimized for the hardware.

4:47The hardware is is is is is moving so fast that developers don't get the chance.

4:52I think it takes a typical developer eight months to fully incorporate feedback.

4:55features from a new OS.

4:56And then as soon as that happens, they're already looking to the beat of the next one.

5:00And so you you never actually spend, you know, you know, time in one particular phase going, what's the best I can get out of this hardware today?

5:07Um you don't sit in that.

5:08Whereas with cars, you know, that does happen.

5:10You know, you get sort of iterations of engines and the engine isn't gonna change.

5:14The design, the fundamental concept of engine isn't gonna change.

5:16But they've had decades to improve and really refine the sort of way that we interact with cars to where interiors today look like people's driving rooms.

5:25Right.

5:25And you get TV screens and all sorts coming in.

5:28I think I had my first car with um CarPlay in it where you connect your phone and suddenly it's an extension.

5:33People can see my messages.

5:34like well hang on a second here I'm in I'm in a car with four other colleagues uh going across America.

5:39Um anyway so I I think that that that really got this thought process going for me at least.

5:45And I think it feeds in quite nicely to this conversation because that hardware software pivot is quite important when it comes to smart devices, right?

5:54Right, right, exactly.

5:55Um and you if you start to sort of, you know, broaden the field, um, you know, to things like smart watches, um, which you know

6:02Mixed mixed reviews on those.

6:03Uh at the moment they're mostly notification devices and fitness devices.

6:07Um you've got things like uh Alexa and Google Home um who, you know, kind of pretending to be assistants around the house, but really all all people do is chuck silly questions and

6:16And make jokes out of them, you know.

6:17Um and uh and then in terms of other devices, you've got things like tile trackers, which are you know these Bluetooth little dongles you you shove in your keys and then when you lose your keys, it uses the power of the crowds to kind of find where your keys are

6:29are.

6:30And so you've got a whole gamut of smart devices, almost are using wireless technology of some sort in order to communicate with something else.

6:37And that's where most of the smarts has been focused on.

6:39We still don't have um Google level AI, you know

6:42uh it working for us on our phone, telling us that our keys are by the table, right?

6:46Like we still don't have that kind of um seamless integration we promised almost a decade ago

6:50Not yet, not yet.

6:51And I think but I think uh it having you know got my connected home going with the Google Home uh among other devices, right?

6:58It's I've got a Chromecast, a Google Home, uh Nest Thermostat.

7:02All of these things are sort of adding up to just making my life easier and sort of assisting my laziness, right?

7:08And I think this is the argument I always get when I start talking about this.

7:11Well, that's just making you lazy.

7:12It's like, well, I'm not sure.

7:12No, I disagree.

7:14I disagree.

7:15I I fundamentally disagree.

7:16It's not about lazy.

7:17It's about the time the amount of time you're spending doing something.

7:19inane, right?

7:20So time spent not having to get up and go switch the lights on is time better spent doing something more useful.

7:26That's all it is.

7:26If you if you don't make use of that time then fair enough.

7:29You know jokes on you.

7:30But I think it's also about, you know

7:32Yeah.

7:33If you if you think of the Chrome cast as a very simple example, uh that device is basically a stick.

7:37You plug it into the back of the TV, and now your TV has the feature it should have had five years ago, you know?

7:42Like right

7:43That's basically what a chrome stick a chrome stick is.

7:45And and it's and honestly it's it's made things so much easier.

7:47Like again, like I said, it's it's it's small things like the phone rings, I need to pause the television.

7:52Or Netflix, I can just say goop to my Google home, pause Netflix or whatever.

7:55Yeah.

7:56I I can turn on the light on and off when it suddenly gets dark and and starts to rain.

8:01When I'm putting my shoes on, I can ask the weather so I don't have to

8:04get my phone out and you know all of that all of these tiny little things start adding up right to something bigger right.

8:09But those should all be native features in everything you've just mentioned, right?

8:12Like they should be able to talk to each other off a a common protocol and just work.

8:16I shouldn't have to put a stick so that my

8:18you know Chromecast can talk to something else.

8:20I bought a device to talk to another device which I've shoved into the back of my TV.

8:24Great.

8:24So my my favorite thing I think is all of these things need a Wi-Fi connection.

8:28They need some sort of network connection.

8:31Um so most of these things you can uh start running off your phone.

8:35Um it's it's one of these things you sort of either scan a QR code or you get the app and install it via Bluetooth, blah blah blah blah blah.

8:42Now for for my Nest Thermostat

8:44uh you actually have to enter it manually, the Wi-Fi password.

8:47And oh my god.

8:48If you get your first ever like if you get your first keypad so how do you Correct.

8:53Well you see it's click wheel it's click wheel.

8:54It's basically like an iPod classic.

8:56Like an iPod classic.

8:56You do know Tony Fidel, who started next.

8:59was the creator of the click wheel design, right?

9:01Oh wow, there we go.

9:02There you go, full circle.

9:04Very full circle.

9:06But yeah, so the the the first password you get with your router when you get

9:08installed you uh obviously if the smart thing to do is to change it i've changed it to something similarly strong and long and all of this stuff um but that means it's like 25 characters with special characters

9:18blah blah blah and you're just sitting there on on like click push scroll clicks push and it's just like man if I have to do this again um there was with there was a power cut um at where I live uh a couple

9:30of months ago.

9:30No, they cut the power when they installed like a smart thermostat or something else.

9:35And when that when that came through, they cut the power, which meant I was like, oh no, I'm gonna have to do the click wheel again.

9:40So all of these different things, like because you have to have that network connection, I mean you have to establish it and change it.

9:45And each all routers now come with two wave frequencies, right?

9:48You get the 2.

9:494 gigahertz and the 5 gigahertz.

9:50And the difference there is range, right?

9:52So something you might get in the garden will be a 2.

9:544 gigahertz and your 5 gigahertz faster one, you'll be getting through through

9:59through like the walls in your house when you're closer to the router.

10:02How how how do you think this will change?

10:04Like how how do you think that the strength of the connection and um the the impact of having so many devices connected to your internet will will will change the way we think about smart objects

10:13So uh in order to answer this, I have to sort of step back a little bit.

10:17Um we talked a lot about hardware, and fundamentally that hardware is driven by chips, and those chips are fundamentally developed.

10:23by a handful of companies.

10:25Apple, uh, Intel, Qualcomm, AMD.

10:28These are fundamentally the people who make the underlying technologies and protocols that

10:32that you know enable these devices to talk to each other.

10:35Now, when we had the advent of you know mobile internet, that was technically 3G.

10:39I remember the you know Sony Ericsson flip phone that you could watch football girls on, you know, that that was like the big thing.

10:45Watch girls on your phone, right?

10:46That was the first sort of advent of here's some data, actual data with enough bandwidth that can actually do something meaningful uh on the go

10:54And then we had 4G, which fixed the next problem, which is that bandwidth isn't fast enough.

10:58Here's a little bit more bandwidth in a more reliable state that you can use to stream an entire film on the go.

11:04Okay.

11:05And you know, that we've only just really got to the point where mobile phone and networks are actually able to do that in a reliable way.

11:10And coverage for 4G is now just about reaching sort of, you know, deep

11:14decent levels.

11:14I'm not saying it's great, but it's reaching decent levels.

11:16Okay.

11:17But fundamentally, if you look at sort of the last five years of, you know, I'm gonna say connection.

11:21So I'm talking about Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, um, you know, mobile internet.

11:26your br internet at home, they all suffer from one brig problem and that's latency.

11:30Uh you'll experience this really well if you're, for example, on a train.

11:33Get on a pack train and then try and use your phone.

11:35Okay.

11:36It's basically impossible.

11:37It will never work.

11:38And that the reason why you watch a sports game.

11:40Yeah, okay, or go to a sports stadium.

11:41Or stand outside a sports stadium.

11:42The reason is is because so many people are connecting to the same antenna.

11:46And the noise in that sort of uh process is basically makes it very, very hard.

11:51Now, as soon as you move out the station, what actually ends up happening is the connection gets better and you're actually able to use stuff.

11:57Every time you stop, it gets worse.

11:58It's basically the same principle with most of technology today.

12:01It was designed for speed, but it wasn't designed for a lot of persistent sort of connections and low latency communication.

12:07If I give you another example, we talk a lot about driverless cars in society today and how they're going to work.

12:12Now, if I put a driverless car on the motorway on the M25, uh, that's a highway um here in the

12:16the in the UK and you go down that uh mateway at 75 miles per hour let's say you're breaking the speed limit whatever yeah um you the the latency required for the car to be able to communicate

12:29Uh thousands of data points about the cars around it, the weather, the traction on the road, the grip, changing lanes, speed, distance, all of these calculations have been being done tens of thousands of times a second.

12:39And it can do all of that, but then it can't communicate that data fast enough back to the network so that other cars know what this car that I'm driving is doing.

12:47Because the latency to do that is still too slow.

12:49So the time it takes to send that information to the network and then back again is still too slow.

12:53Slay.

12:54And so where we are now is that you know we've got actually the sort of convergence of a lot of technologies coming together to make that possible.

13:00So we've got Wi-Fi 6, which is actually in the latest smartphone, which is quite uh latest sort of iPhone and Samsung

13:05Yeah.

13:06Which is quite cool, but there's no routers yet that support that technology.

13:09So you've got a lot of idle technology in your smartphone today, um, not being used just yet.

13:13You've then got 5G.

13:15And I think 5G is a real big enabler here because it takes a concept of, you know, LTE, 4G, and basically it it it to to break it down.

13:23Um if I use an analogy of um an Accado um, you know.

13:28delivery driver, right?

13:29Yeah.

13:29He grabs your shopping.

13:30Accado is a delivery service for food shopping here in the UK.

13:33Okay.

13:33He grabs your food, he or she grabs your food, puts it in their van, brings it to you, then goes back to the depot for each and every delivery.

13:39That's how the network works today.

13:41Okay

13:41It can't handle too much information simultaneously.

13:44Now, where we go with 5G is that that Ocado driver can actually put all the load he needs to put onto his truck on at the same time and he can do simultaneous deliveries at the same time.

13:55time and arrive back at the depot at the same time with the same amount of bandwidth.

13:59And that sounds absurd and some sort of you know sci-fi sort of concept.

14:02But that's essentially where we're going with 5G because it's using lots of different technologies to make that possible.

14:06And so we're now at this point where, you know, this dream we were offered five years ago of everything connected, you know, um, is going to kind of explode beyond just Alexa at home being able to play music back to you or, you know, set time is for goodness.

14:18sake.

14:19I think these things are probably the most expensive timer setters.

14:22That's I think 90% of what I use mine for in the kitchen and photos basically.

14:26Photos, music and time.

14:27timers, that's ninety percent of the use case.

14:29Well mine's mine's probably connect connecting like controlling TV lights and yeah timers and and and I think weather.

14:35Yeah exactly weather weather and timings yeah

14:37How do I get to X?

14:38Yeah, yeah, yeah.

14:39Very, very true, very true.

14:40Um and so we're now at this advent where this technology is now actually coming to fruition.

14:44And it's gonna take a little while because

14:46At the same time, you still have this other problem in society, which is the sunk cost of basically everything we've ever invested in, everything that isn't 5G

14:54So to use 5G, you can't just sort of put a 5G chip in the phone and say off you go because as soon as you leave a city, you'll have no reception.

15:01So you have to then support 4G.

15:03And again, 4G doesn't have 100% coverage yet

15:06uh at least not in the uk so then that means you also have to put 3G but 3G isn't supported by all devices because some of those devices are still old so you still need to have 2G in your phone as well right

15:16And so you end up having this all this innovation go into a new protocol.

15:20But in order for it to work, you still have to make a chip that does 2G, 3G, 4G, and now 5G.

15:26And so you get 5G, but the downside is that your battery life is awful because you're having to carry the load of doing seven different types of communication on one chip, right?

15:34Um and so that's that's sort of the sun cost problem, right?

15:37People don't want to move too quickly because then you know the cost upgrade your phone, uh the cost to customers will be extremely high.

15:43So you we end up suffering actually initially for the first three or four years.

15:46Where people go, oh, what's the point of 5G?

15:48I thought I was gonna get this.

15:49But actually what's happening is that you know you're being phased into that technology, which then, you know, worsens your impression of it, which then means it doesn't get as well adopted and people don't move to it quickly enough

15:59So you've got this sort of weird uh dynamic sort of working against each other.

16:02Um but I I I think we are generally at the point where uh this is going to explode.

16:06And more importantly, that's gonna have a big impact on the data that we we see um being available to

16:11businesses and everyone around us today.

16:13Right.

16:14I think the the really important point you touched on there is just how everyone's going to adopt it, right?

16:18Like what are you what are what are the tangible benefits people will see within the first sort of

16:23Yeah.

16:23Like but I think that the same was when 4G came out, the first same was when 3G came out the first side, right?

16:28Everyone was like, yeah, but why do I bother with 4G?

16:31I don't even have 3G where I am.

16:32It's like, well, this well, within a year, it was everyone everywhere was just about on 4G and the second you hit a 3G network or you're on a train or something, you're like, oh my god, this is so slow.

16:42Yeah.

16:42Um you get used to that sort of

16:44that sort of change.

16:45I think what's really important, you think you mentioned that on 5G is the latency and the speed at which you'll get information back.

16:50Right.

16:51Right.

16:51Because like let's take um real-time traffic, for example

16:54So you can pay TomTom for that service, uh and many people do, or you can look at Google Maps, and Google Maps uses every other, well basically every Android user full stop, like re regardless, like if you turn it on or off or whatever

17:08So every Google Android user as well as any any other user using Google Maps had that by moment in time to simulate traffic, right?

17:14To say that there's a lot of traffic here because we

17:15can spot a lot of phones here.

17:17I think I think you you showed me this article where one guy um walked, what was it, like hundred smartphones across a bridge.

17:24Yeah, exactly.

17:24Uh it was like an artist.

17:26Um he he put 100 smartphones in a trolley, literally in a in a in a trolley the size of a bucket, like a tiny bucket, and he put it in a trolley because it's quite heavy.

17:34And then he he opened Google Maps on every single one of them and routed them to

17:39To a certain uh place so that they'd stay running in the background.

17:43Then he wheeled a trolley around on the road, and what that did is it created artificial traffic jams because Google uses phone data on the road to figure out traffic

17:53Right, exactly.

17:54Exactly.

17:55So according to Google, there were a hundred cars at this like you know freeway, but he was taking pictures of himself with literally no one around him.

18:01Because surprise, surprise, Google was routing everyone away from these roads because it thought there were a hundred

18:06uh cars and you know just just in the procession going around town.

18:10And and we don't even consider these things when we actually like look at we're looking at traffic trends, right?

18:13We're just like, oh yeah, I'll take a different route because it'll be quicker.

18:16And Google tells you, let me route you to something the way you'll get there five minutes faster

18:19Yeah.

18:20All of those things will be better, right?

18:22Yeah, exactly.

18:22And they'll be smarter as well.

18:24Um and the other thing about this is that

18:27The um just improving the quality of the connection makes certain technologies even more possible that weren't before.

18:34I'll give you a simple example.

18:36Uh I currently have a a PC on my desk.

18:38Uh it's a pretty powerful PC.

18:39I use it for gaming, I use it for video editing.

18:41Now I only built it a month ago, but for the seven months prior to that, I actually was renting a PC from a company in France called Shadow.

18:49And what they do is they basically rent um PC, I'm gonna say PC hardware to

18:54you and they stream the the screen to you wherever you are um you know in in the world and so what that means is I don't actually have to pay the high costs to build uh

19:03uh custom PC, but I can still enjoy, you know, high-quality gaming with people all around the world without having having to build a PC.

19:11And I can do this on my mobile phone, my laptop, which doesn't have the specs to do any gaming, and they rely on a really strong, good internet

19:17connection in order to do that.

19:18Now with low latency internet connections, those kind of possibilities become even easier because it's it's a concept called edge computing where basically

19:26you you move the computational task not uh away from your local device or your laptop and you move it to the cloud and then there's certain sort of activities stay on your local device.

19:35So for example, in that example, my keyboard and my mouse movements are captured locally, right?

19:41Because I'm the one playing the game.

19:42They can't do that in the cloud.

19:43They can't predict where I want to go.

19:44Although apparently Google are doing that with their service where they can predict what moves you're about to make

19:49and then make the graphics render faster because they can figure out sort of where you're going.

19:53It's some weird concept, right?

19:54But anyway, I'll come, I'll come out to later.

19:56So edge computing allows for this sort of possibility to bring the cloud closer to people and to make it faster and sort of more

20:02more capable, which again opens up new possibilities for everyone.

20:05I think I think the other thing alongside like low latency computing is the power.

20:09So like the amount of power used will be much lower.

20:12So I think it's Wi-Fi six and five G will allow you to actually have like almost a computer will be on or a smart device be on, but it won't even use as much power as it usually does in order to perform the service or give the service, which is so important for for sort of

20:26of running electricity costs uh for for impact on um networks uh and also just just yeah the overheads are so much cheaper to to do that sort of thing

20:34Right.

20:35So yeah, exactly.

20:35It's it's it's much more sort of um economical.

20:38And it's funny because these things uh sort of add up, right?

20:41If you take a football stadium again, if everyone's running Wi-Fi on their phone and connect to the stadium Wi-Fi

20:46Just think how much energy is being used simultaneously in our pockets, right?

20:50You've got many sort of mini reactors in our pockets, right?

20:52That's what a battery is, basically.

20:54And and then add add on to that, like if once you have Wi-Fi, people are gonna be like, man, imagine if I could charge my phone at the football game that I'm paying 50 quid to see.

21:00Yeah, exactly.

21:01All of these things start to really quickly add up, right?

21:03Like as in why can't I charge my phone, blah, blah, blah.

21:07Gets more and more and more expensive.

21:09But I think you you also when we talked about hardware, I think you also mentioned earlier on about the you know the trade-off.

21:14So better hardware maybe is better, more energy efficient as well.

21:17But to have more powerful hardware

21:19you will need more power.

21:21So I think what you almost get to a scenario of happening is instead of your power being used to power the the Wi-Fi, that power then get then gets rerouted and reused into

21:31A better performance about probably by other hardware?

21:33Yeah, exactly.

21:35Yeah, that absolute follows.

21:36So if you take uh if you take your simple um take a smartphone, uh that's basically the the most easy example to explain.

21:42Any battery power that's used to

21:44you know, keep the Wi Fi persistent, is battery not being used by the CPU and everything is a coefficient of power.

21:50So the the CPU in your smartphone could do more things if it had more power.

21:54If you took the chip out out of your iPhone

21:56And you plugged it into a motherboard, which had a wall plug.

21:59You could run that CPU probably three times faster than its current speed because it's being limited by the battery, not by

22:07its capability not by the power.

22:08So the the trick with a smartphone is having it use very little elect electricity while still being able to do high computational tasks.

22:16If you don't have that limitation

22:18You can do so much more with it.

22:20The iPad is a good example.

22:21If you take the iPad Pro at the moment, that is faster than the uh base model iPad Pro is faster than the base model MacBook Pro.

22:29Um of

22:30of equivalent price um because the arm chip is just so much better at handling power and uh if and its efficiencies there just work way better but when you give it a battery the size of an iPad

22:40It's suddenly able to do things even faster.

22:42Like it renders 4K faster than my powerful PC can render 4K.

22:46I actually did that test.

22:47I took a video, very basic video, and I said, okay, I'd like you just to output this video in 4K.

22:52No processing, just re-render this in 4K.

22:54Okay, and the iPad did it in like, I think it was 30 seconds, and my powerful PC took about a minute to do the same thing.

23:01Now, okay, the iPad's optimized for that particular procedure because it's got a special

23:05chip in it.

23:05But that's exactly what I'm talking about.

23:07It's got a special customization that allows it to use low power and uh be efficient whilst doing that high computational

23:13Task.

23:14I also want to talk about software here as well.

23:16So the software we use on these internet connected devices, on dedicated devices that are like an iPad.

23:22purely optimized for the task it has to do as in it will it was based on the app you have open right now uh as to how much resource it's using right all of those different things add up right so the

23:32The fact that software and the post-processing that will continue to improve, I think, is why we'll see more and more people start to use connected home devices.

23:40I'm I'm gonna trickle like go back to our one of our first points, which is talking about, you know, the the smartwatches.

23:45They they're probably the most uh what's the word?

23:48Uh most preval no no not exciting, I wouldn't say uh most prevalent, most prevalent uh new internet of things, wearables, tech

23:55that's actually being used right.

23:56I think the big the big thing there, as you said, everyone a lot of people have Apple Watches, Garmin's, um, fitness trackers, Fitbits, whatever.

24:03Um

24:05I think the the things you'll you're starting to notice now is two.

24:07So first it's getting cheaper alongside the the the cost of uh connected home devices like smart speakers

24:13So for example, I think over Christmas it was like a tenner for a Google Home Mini.

24:17Yep.

24:18Once you have one, you then get like the rest of your every other room kit.

24:21Every room has one.

24:22Yeah.

24:23Exactly.

24:24That that's the way they get you, as it were.

24:26Um the the the second thing there is if it cost as well as it's getting nicer.

24:30It's getting the the stuff you can do on these devices is getting more like more and more prevalent.

24:35You know, having something on your wrist where you can say a set timer for 15 minutes.

24:39is still about five to ten seconds faster than getting your phone out and having to do the app.

24:44Right.

24:44Like think think about like when I think about connected time, I don't really think about the the

24:48the laziness as much as is referred to me as, but I think it uh as something that's augmenting my life.

24:53So for example, if I'm in the kitchen, um if I had a uh was it the Google show or no say an Amazon show with the Google

25:00the screen one on the screen, nest hub exactly.

25:03That allows you to see recipes and watch videos of of cooking, right?

25:07Oh I know uh yeah exactly.

25:09Another thing would be smart fridges.

25:10This was probably my favorite internet of shit.

25:13You know, the the fur one of the first ever innovative smart fridges which had the Windows XP era blue screen of death on it.

25:19And it's it's quite funny because it's a fridge.

25:22But then when you start thinking about well how how would this work in in practice?

25:25Well, a smart fridge would probably have, you know, in in in uh five to ten years time a transparent screen.

25:31Which allows you to peek inside your fridge.

25:33You probably might end up having sensors in there which can start spotting what's going off and what you need to use soon.

25:40It would probably have some sort of connection to your grocery store.

25:43So you can quickly add something to your basket or to your shopping list.

25:48And you can also probably have like, oh, I want to cook fajitas this week.

25:51What do I need to buy that's not in my fridge?

25:53Yeah.

25:53It gives you a recipe, click list, and then when you want to buy features, it will tell you where everything is, how much stock you've got left of all your different food items, and then it would then communicate to your um your screen, smart screen and your thing to show you the recipe, etc.

26:06etc.

26:06Right.

26:07So it's it starts to augment your life rather than um do something where you're you're in a in a scenario of you're just doing it because you're lazy, right?

26:14Yeah, yeah.

26:14We we're kind of in the halfway house at the moment with all

26:16of that stuff.

26:17So if I if I take some of your examples, you know, meal delivery services, not delivery on Uber, but I'm talking things like HaloFresh and Gusto.

26:23You know, they they already kind of you choose a recipe and they send it to you in a box.

26:27And they've proven that that can actually work.

26:29You know, I go I've had one of those now for a year.

26:33I've only ever had the delivery go missing once and the food arrives fresh as anything, uh iced iced really, really well.

26:40Uh and boom.

26:40So they've proven that model.

26:41All that needs to happen now is that instead of me going online every week and choosing what I want, um, some intelligence, like you say, where it's able to look at the fridge and just time the delivery so that, okay, look

26:51It looks like your fridge is running low.

26:53Um, you know, let's send a delivery now and it has three meals this week rather than four because we noticed in your calendar that you're all out three nights tonight.

26:59Whereas at the moment I have to, I have to go in and, you know, me and Brie have to go in and you know preemptively, are we

27:04before right.

27:05Okay, yeah, we're gonna be out twice that night.

27:07Well sometimes we have this dilemma where it comes we we forgot that we're gonna be busy that week.

27:10We end up having to cook the food so it doesn't go off.

27:12And then we end up eating it for lunch.

27:14'Cause you're kind of in this like weird position where you you have to get through the feed because you have it.

27:18And so that that's where we need to get to next, right?

27:20Where these things kind of offer a level of intelligence that I think isn't far-fetched, right?

27:25It's not like we want um, you know

27:28It's not like we wanted to make the food for us.

27:30It's not like we we wanted to look at our fridge and tell us that you know we're a beast or something like that.

27:35We're just asking for a little bit of intelligence to sit around these services.

27:39Amazon the same, for example, you know, they have those dash buttons.

27:43Again, you just want a little bit of intelligence after you've clicked that dash button three times just to say, you know what, we've looked at the last three clicks and we figured out that you use this product every

27:51two months.

27:52So we'll send it to you every two months without you even asking.

27:54Okay.

27:55And I think I think that that also lends itself to things that we do know pricing and promotions.

27:58Imagine if you're able to get smart pricing and smart promotions based on

28:02That, right?

28:03Like yeah, you know the it knows you're getting it three weeks, but hey, you've bought it so many times from us.

28:07Here's uh 50% off your next order.

28:09Right.

28:10Right, right.

28:11Taps go do something similar

28:12but they uh pose it to you.

28:14Exactly.

28:15Exactly.

28:16That's if you use your club card as well on those products.

28:18Yeah, exactly.

28:18Exactly.

28:19So it's kind of interesting where this is all going to go.

28:22I think where it has really interesting sort of impact

28:25impact on the work we do in analytics is the data.

28:28And the real big thing here is up until now, up until at least for the next two to three years, most of the data that's created comes out or is derived from a human activity.

28:39So a transaction on Amazon, you know, checking into an event, uh, purchasing something.

28:43Those are all triggered by human behaviors in some way or form.

28:47And where we are now is that these connector devices can actually, you know, do what they were promising to do.

28:52three or four years ago because of a better network infrastructure to support it.

28:56You're gonna have this explosion of data that's created by machines.

28:59And by that I mean, you know, HelloFresh looking at my calendar and then making a decision based off that without me being involved in that, right?

29:06You're gonna get three or four data points from that one activity.

29:10If you go even further to things like driverless cars or stock intake being done dynamically through RFIDs and stuff like that, you're gonna get so much more event data about everything.

29:20every single thing that we do today that it's going to really literally cause an explosion in sort of the analysis that I think a lot of business of businesses have been wanting to do.

29:27Because the current problem is you get a piece of data

29:29And in business, it always seems that you collect the data just the grain above, just where you need it to be, right?

29:36You need it, you need a transaction at the customer level.

29:39For whatever reason, it's been aggregated up and you can't disaggregate it because

29:42because the person you buy that data from, like Cantar, doesn't do that, right?

29:45They give you the aggregated version of that picture.

29:48And so with real-time analytics and real-time networks, you know, this is actually possible.

29:52You can actually get that information about

29:53You know how many chocolate bars did I sell today?

29:56Yeah, exactly.

29:56And and and that that speeds up the the events that and the analysis that you're able to do off the back of that

30:01as well.

30:02Um however however however the the big I think trade off the we're I think we're at the now what part after talking about what and the so what right the the big now what is the pri data privacy

30:12Right.

30:12So this is both on hardware hardware, so it's in the actual physical device as well as the software.

30:16Right, right.

30:17So we talked about this at the peak smartphone and the fact that smartphones will only get better and smarter in software.

30:22But everyone who has a phone, an Android phone or an iPhone will be able to do this on their photos.

30:27So if you go to the native photos app and you search for pictures of me with hats or pictures of hats or just search hats, for example.

30:35You will able be Google or iOS will be able to scan all your photos and give you those pictures because it's the software is smart enough and it and as that trade-off of

30:44will store your photos, it's then just scanning them to help you, this is what software thinks it's doing, to help you um find that out.

30:51Now for a lot of people

30:53That is scary and they don't want that to be shared.

30:56For example, the fact that the um connected home devices, either be Alexa or Google Home or even the home pod, are always somewhat listening to listen for the trigger phase

31:06And you know, the all the stories about Amazon having people transcribing conversations, yada yada, yada.

31:10Yeah, yeah, yeah.

31:11All all of those things are a privacy trade-off, like but but this is a transaction, right?

31:15It's a similar transaction to any paid service for uh as you used to be, the mapping services like

31:20um map quest or TomTom.

31:22Yeah.

31:23This is people pay for those services or you can get it from Google for free.

31:26But in exchange you're saying Google, can you you can have my location anonymously for free.

31:31Right.

31:32Right, right.

31:33And it's a it's an interesting challenge.

31:34I always I always tend to argue things in a in a slightly different angle, which is okay, let's look at privacy seriously and let's just take a typical activity, for example

31:44something you buy off Amazon.

31:45Okay.

31:45When you buy something from Amazon, Amazon and yourself and pretty much no one else knows that you've bought that item.

31:52Amazon obviously know because you bought it from them.

31:54And maybe the retailer on Amazon if it wasn't bought directly.

31:57Okay.

31:57Let's take another example.

31:58Let's take your photos.

32:00You take a photo of a hat and then you it's in your photo album.

32:03Now it depends who you're talking about, because if you talk about Google.

32:07That analysis of whether that picture has a hat or not is done in the cloud.

32:10So they do that analysis in the cloud.

32:12And on Apple, it's done on device because what they do there is they they they have models of what objects

32:17looks like uh loaded into the Apple device and then they have a dedicated um sort of algorithmic sort of AI uh chip that actually does that process

32:26There's also specific RAM, isn't there?

32:27There's specific parts of the RAM that's dedicated to machine learning.

32:30Exactly.

32:30And those are those are relatively secure, though those ones that are on

32:33the device.

32:34And so in both cases, the Google and Apple are not aware that A the photo is yours

32:41And B that it contains a hat.

32:44A machine is aware of that.

32:45Okay?

32:46And it's it's this common misconception that, oh Google, Google can see all my photos.

32:50Actually, no, they can't.

32:51They store that information in an encrypted manner, and the only thing that actually has access to that photo is the processing capability.

32:59So the processing, the computer that decides to process your photo has can see that photo, but it doesn't have eyes.

33:04It doesn't see like your face and go, ooh, hello, hello.

33:07This is Tim.

33:08What it sees is a bunch of numbers, a bunch of pixels, and then it processes that in that similar way.

33:13So when you type hat, Google doesn't see a picture of a hat, it sees a bunch of ones and zeros.

33:17Okay.

33:18And so I'm not trying to obfuscate the the the the sort of concern here.

33:22I'm not trying to sort of sidestep it at all, but I'm just trying to highlight that the thing you should be more worried about.

33:28is actually how secure is that data, right?

33:31So if if Google is doing all that stuff, that's fine.

33:34But if that data isn't held securely, then it is easy for an actual

33:38human being to reverse engineer that information and steal it and then take a look at something that is actually sensitive.

33:43And so people get too drawn into the oh Facebook's listening to me.

33:47Or Google's looking at my photos.

33:49It's like, trust me, these companies have no interest whatsoever in looking at your one photo of a hat.

33:55What they care more about is how your one bit of data aggregates

33:59to a thousand users that they can call a middle-aged man in his 30s or whatever, um, you know, who buys a lot of technology.

34:05That's what they care about.

34:06They care about the demographic.

34:07And we get too drawn into like worrying that someone in a computer somewhere is literally a human being is looking at our photos.

34:14And that that just doesn't work at the scale these guys are operating at

34:17But just don't have literally they don't have the time to look at the millions and billions of photos we're uploading on a daily basis to to those services.

34:26Agreed.

34:26So um tell me more about the vegan pizza experiment we did on Friday.

34:31So I've still been shouting vegan pizza into my phone because it drives me off the wall when people say, oh my god, Facebook's been

34:38listening to me.

34:38I saw this ad on Instagram and I swear I hadn't typed it into my phone or anything.

34:42But then suddenly I got home and I opened Facebook and there it is.

34:46It's an advert about vegan pizza.

34:48Yeah.

34:49And so I was like, okay, okay, fine.

34:51Let me indulge this for a little bit.

34:53Instagram, I use Instagram.

34:54It has access to my microphone because I record videos on Instagram.

34:57So therefore it has to have access on my microphone.

34:59So I open up Instagram.

35:01And for the last 48 hours, I have actually genuinely been still saying vegan pizza to my phone.

35:07To try and see if I get any advert, any advert whatsoever, that even A has a pizza in it, B is a vegan pizza.

35:14Okay

35:15And now we are 48 hours into it.

35:17I've seen nothing, nothing, nothing.

35:20And what I try and tell people is this, listen

35:23I know it I know it seems impossible to just fathom this concept that, you know, there's no other way that they could have um, you know, found out this information about you without listening to you because

35:33You know, humans have this um capability to do pattern recognition, right?

35:37You see something, you notice it, and then you don't stop seeing it again and again and again.

35:41And so in this particular case, especially privacy, which is very abstract,

35:44We don't understand the data and how it comes from into our phone.

35:46So we see phone in our hand, we see an app, we open app, and then we see that it's got the ability to use the microphone.

35:52So we think, oh, the connection here must be

35:54that it's always using the microphone, even when the the phone is off.

35:57And it's like, well, no, Apple doesn't let them do that.

35:59Like just just number one.

36:01And number two, let's assume they even do that.

36:03that.

36:03Again, that's not the kind of data they need to process that advert or whatever.

36:07What they actually care about is your behaviors.

36:09You know, what behaviors did you

36:11you trigger before you bought that vegan pizza because that is what they then use to figure out what other people might be doing to go buy that vegan pizza.

36:17They don't literally take your microphone request.

36:19And so these companies have gotten creepily good at using data to do this.

36:26A simple example is this

36:27Um I have a friend who was ill, okay?

36:30And they uh they they they they swore on earth that they they didn't mention anything uh on any social media platform.

36:37They don't have Facebook, uh they don't have uh Instagram, they just use Twitter

36:42And what they said was, I don't understand how my friend saw an advert for a cold and flu when A, they weren't ill, but B, I was.

36:51Okay.

36:51I was like, okay, come on.

36:52here come on okay so i was like okay all right fine fine so i just asked a couple of questions i was like okay so do you do you live with your friend are they a housemate yes okay well let me explain that to you

37:03You have your phone, it connects to a Wi-Fi router.

37:06Your Wi-Fi router has a unique MAC address.

37:08Yeah?

37:08That MAC address is unique.

37:09So if four of you connect to that, Facebook already knows you all live in the same property.

37:13So it's showing your friend an advert for a flu, even though he doesn't have one, because it's figured out that someone in the property is ill.

37:19And so therefore it might as well just show ads to everyone in the house before they all get ill.

37:23This is literally how Facebook and and so on and Google work.

37:27This is just how they work.

37:28I've got a good tidbit about that.

37:30So um when I w when when I went to university the this is when Facebook, everyone used Facebook.

37:34Nowadays people are like, ah, I'm not on Facebook

37:36anymore and sort of get on their get on their high horse about exactly what's up and Instagram and all this stuff.

37:42But anyway, this is this is this is when everyone was on Facebook and he he was telling me like, oh yeah, so um got to university so he went to um

37:50w one close to where I live and he was like, yeah, so we all got in.

37:53And then he was like within uh by the evening of my first day that I'd I'd logged in, I opened up Facebook.

37:59And my suggested friends, all of them were my flatmates.

38:02I never actually I didn't add any of them.

38:05None of them added me, but the suggested one was my flatmaster's like

38:08Right.

38:09I was like, are you on the same network?

38:10Yes.

38:11There we go.

38:12Simple done.

38:12Next.

38:13Yeah, next.

38:14Exactly.

38:14It's stuff like that.

38:15And it's just like that confirmation by

38:17I think also the second one was how Google um can help hospitals predict flu out outbreaks.

38:24Right.

38:24Because when people start searching for flu symptoms, it's uh then able to do that now

38:30There's a great article by a guy called Danny Page about how people should stop using Google Trends because it's a common baseline.

38:36It's based on a zero of zero to one of the scale, blah blah blah.

38:39blah blah blah.

38:39Yeah they do that deliberately yeah of course of course because that's you literally you pay for Google trends and add words for that for that information.

38:46Anyway so

38:48Um the the this using there are good things that come out of having these things shared and I think because of the volume of internet browsing that goes on

38:56uh as you say a company will not care that a guy in his mid-twenties uh ordered a pizza and said oh my god I'm so excited about ordering a pizza out loud

39:06Right, like that that that just doesn't matter.

39:08It just doesn't matter.

39:09And and it's also computationally expensive to process that.

39:11Imagine getting an audio clip.

39:13Like the Google here can barely can barely understand when I say uh Google do

39:17this and it's like oh okay I started a timer it's like no you got that wrong like exactly why why why would adverts be working any better than so on on on top of that I remember speaking to a software company about you know I was like um

39:29I think this was when I worked in Manchester and I was like, why is like I clearly use your software.

39:34I log into Twitter at work and I'm given an advert saying, hey, maybe you should start using this marketing market research company.

39:40And I was like, but well like surely how dumb is your advert that is picking me out?

39:44Right.

39:44Right.

39:44Um I know who and the guy was like, you know what?

39:48Do you know how much that costs

39:50That advert costs me two pounds a month.

39:52Now if of the one million, two million, five million people that see that advert that have been profiled, then say, yep, I'm gonna buy that, that's 15 grand.

40:01Right.

40:02Done.

40:02Sold.

40:03And it's like return on investment.

40:04Return and investment.

40:07I can now funnel as much money as I want into those adverts because I've made one sale off that advertisement.

40:11etc.

40:12Exactly that play into it, right?

40:15And um yes, there are and if p if the privacy is a concern, there are now so many VPN services you can buy as a subscription.

40:22If you get that outright.

40:23So you're then able to um protect yourself if you if you so want to.

40:27And what will happen is you know, VPN is currently service soon.

40:30ISPs will incorporate that into their design.

40:32uh delivery and not just be another value add system.

40:35Although maybe that's you know you'll almost get to a point where internet service providers will um offer that as a hey we'll give you this for free

40:43Uh similar to how you know you have energy providers now saying all of our energy comes from 100% renewable.

40:47Right.

40:48It's like is it there?

40:50Yeah, right.

40:50And there's no way of me checking, but I feel ethically better about that.

40:54Right.

40:54So I feel better, yeah.

40:55You you you and I feel better about it.

40:57And so yeah, the the the this privacy thing is it's a really big thing.

41:01I think everyone can do a little bit more to educate themselves on

41:04uh sort of the ethics around data.

41:06We spoke a bit about that last week.

41:08They can do them themselves some, you know, some good, just understanding the levels of privacy.

41:14that they can reasonably expect from technology companies, given the interactions they have with non-technological companies.

41:21You know, I go to my GP

41:22I have a heart attack when I see them writing everything on paper.

41:26Because I'm like, damn, there's actually my information is physically available.

41:30All you need is access to that filing cabinet.

41:32Yeah.

41:33And I can I know where that filing cabinet is, right?

41:35Yeah.

41:36Whereas I can't tell you where on earth the Google server is that has my 90,000 photos

41:40I that's that's just not information that's readily available.

41:42And yet neither can Google.

41:43And yet, and yet so we we talk about an internet of things.

41:46So the the other thing that's quite this is a huge thing in America, uh smart locks.

41:50I I am just like, man, that's so bad.

41:53Like imagine having a smart lock.

41:55You'd be locked out of your house.

41:55Blah, blah, blah, blah.

41:56Imagine if your Wi-Fi goes down, all this stuff.

41:58But conversely, um the uh the alternate route of if you've forgotten your keys is putting it in one of those hidden rock pebble rings

42:06Or like a four combination lock you get at the Airbnb to stay in.

42:09Under a plant outside of your home.

42:10Right.

42:11And it's just like, man, what's more secure?

42:12What is currently more secure at all?

42:14Right.

42:15Uh and and certainly the trade off of, you know, people peep if you tell someone I'm gonna all your information is stored in the cloud, they're like, oh, oh I'm I'm not sure about that.

42:22I was like, well, it's that or we put it in the hospital that could burn down, someone could break in

42:26Yeah.

42:27Copy, falsify your records by pen, all of these different things.

42:30So many sort of so many sort of things that we already fine with today, but we're suddenly not fine with when

42:36It's made in Facebook.

42:37Someone else does it.

42:38Yeah, when someone else or more importantly, when the terms Google or Facebook come up.

42:41It's funny, if it wasn't Google, Facebook, Apple or Amazon

42:44I think people would be happy.

42:46I think those companies just have an inherent amount of power in so many different places that they've developed mistrust.

42:51And they've also screwed up in in some cases.

42:53You know, they generally have made really bad faux parts.

42:56I think um most recent one for Google was it came out a couple of weeks ago that back in December of last year

43:03There was a brief period where when someone downloaded photos from Google Photos, they might not have got just their photos.

43:09They could have also got photos that belong to other people.

43:12Okay.

43:12But, and here's a big but.

43:14Someone messed up at Google and people mess up every day.

43:17But if you go into an Apple store and you go to the genius bar and you see the amount of people every single day

43:23that are crying.

43:24If you see the amount of people every single time I go in that are crying because they've forgotten their password to their iCloud backup and they've lost all their photos, right?

43:32All their photos that were on their phone because they had them backed up nowhere else.

43:35It's a mistake on exactly the same kind of level.

43:38And yet, people people can't equate.

43:40It can't equate these things.

43:42It's still a human being building these things.

43:44And so Google makes one mistake in a decade of photoservices, right?

43:48But people make mistakes every day that lead to much worse consequences.

43:51Much, much worse.

43:52But but that's exactly is it your problem, Tim, or is it their problem?

43:56If it I if I if I can stand on top of my hill and have my holier than thou approach of being like, well, I didn't screw up.

44:01They screwed up and they're a massive company.

44:03They can't screw up.

44:05It's that holier than thou approach that that will always continue to win in these times

44:09Well the the thing is I I I put my data in Google and I I expect them to not screw up.

44:14I expect them to be better at it than me.

44:16Exactly.

44:17Absolutely.

44:17However, however, and here's a big butt, I don't just trust them with my photo

44:22I trust multiple people with the photos.

44:23I trust Apple, I trust Google, and I trust Backblaze to keep my photos safe, right?

44:28And when I keep those photos in those

44:31places, I make sure that my Google account has two-factor authentication, right?

44:34Yeah.

44:35It's just a really simple thing.

44:36So I am personally maybe knowledgeable.

44:38So I know these things.

44:39And so you know, you could argue Google could do it better.

44:41job of educating their users.

44:43But go ahead, go grab my photos off the Google Server.

44:45You're still not going to be able to look at them because they're encrypted.

44:48This is already a thing though.

44:49This is already a thing though.

44:50Like the people that are

44:52There are people that are educating users.

44:54Like this is what banks are doing right now.

44:55Like the Barclays Eagles thing.

44:56So Barclays Banking, Banking UK.

44:58Right.

45:03users.

45:05You know, the our customers should have that digital nuance to know what's a phishing email and what isn't, you know, whether a prince from Africa is actually contacting me and all those different things are

45:15Yeah, they're the the the the educ the education pieces.

45:18My my critique to those things on on TV is like when's the last someone ever remembered an advert in detail on

45:23TV, right?

45:24Right, true.

45:25So it's a lip service.

45:27It's like, look at us, we're a good bank, we're helping customers, we run all these academies.

45:30And okay, yes, they do actually do some, you know, digital

45:33academies for for people and they do do in-person stuff at branches, but like really, really, really, really, like um the best place to do this kind of stuff is at source, right?

45:42So when you're uploading a photo, that's a time to tell you, okay, here's what could happen.

45:46happen.

45:47But they don't do that because they don't want you to not use and not use a service.

45:50They want you to have this rosy picture of the world that everything's fine.

45:53It's all good.

45:55Nothing will ever happen.

45:55And broadly speaking, nothing does ever uh ever happen.

45:58And even if the mistake it doesn't impact everyone in put

46:00impacts a small minority.

46:02But there's some cases where, you know, that's that's a matter of life and death.

46:05Literally, literally.

46:06You know if you go to Nigeria and you are able to get into someone's photo album and you find that they are, you know, gay or lesbian, that's a life-threatening situation.

46:15for that individual.

46:15Whereas, you know, in Western world we'll just laugh it off and go, oh well, you know, oh it's the sun.

46:19No, they just got access to the photo, you know.

46:21Yeah, exactly right.

46:22It's very blase about it.

46:23But in many cases literally, it's such an important piece to be aware of.

46:29And so for those countries it's almost like we can't because the government will get access to this information and use it for for good or evil.

46:35You know, it could happen here, it could happen in the US, it could happen there.

46:39Anywhere it can happen.

46:40Anywhere.

46:41And those those are very real things to be aware of.

46:43Absolutely.

46:44Yeah, and concerned.

46:45And so everyone can do a better job of educating everyone else on privacy and data.

46:50security I try and help my parents with you know their password uh my my mom writes her passwords in a book and I'm like oh man so

46:57So recently we got rid of this book.

46:59That's why I'm saying it here.

47:00Otherwise I haven't left the write at all.

47:02Um and and they're all in like a nice secure system that now keeps them everywhere.

47:06And she never forgets a password.

47:08Which is perfect.

47:09You know, really simple thing.

47:10Like have someone else's email as a backup email for something that is pivotal, like your Google account.

47:16The only Google account you have, have the backup email be the email of your girlfriend.

47:19friend or the email of a friend.

47:21Because then that way if you set it to backup email to be, I don't know, some hotmail email that you haven't used in three years, right?

47:27The moment something really bad happens, you're gonna wish you did use like some weird email that you haven't used in a while.

47:32And you can actually just go to your friend and say, hey.

47:34I've forgotten this.

47:34You're gonna get an email.

47:35Can you let me into my account?

47:37You know, people you trust, that's the best form of security.

47:40Exactly, which is why you stuff like amigo loans

47:42have come back into play like guarantee your loan by a friend not by a bank.

47:47God we s we started on internet of lots of things and now we've ended up with payday loans honestly what a joke.

47:56of epic epic proportions.

47:57But yeah, I think I think we have an episode there.

47:59I think um these are these are all these are all topics to be broadly aware of.

48:04I'm really keen and excited to see where I think 5G won't be big this year.

48:08I think the iPhone this year will be the 5G device

48:10That really kicks everything off.

48:12I know loads of phone networks in the UK already have five G's.

48:14Apple tags.

48:15Yeah, absolutely.

48:16Apple tags.

48:17Those are already possible with tiles.

48:18I mean

48:19I've been using Tana for two years.

48:21That thing has literally revolutionized my life.

48:23I never lose my keys.

48:24It's just impossible.

48:24I can't.

48:25But this is it.

48:26This is it, right?

48:26Like touchscreen phones already existed before the iPhone.

48:29Exactly.

48:30Exactly.

48:30It's just the way they're done.

48:31It's just the way they're done.

48:32Very, very, very true.

48:33Um man, we can talk about that topic another time.

48:36I was about to go off on a rant.

48:39Well there's two topics that I think have come up.

48:41We can talk about big companies like Amazon and Facebook and Google.

48:44Yeah, we can revisit those, yeah.

48:45W with the the responsibility they have to their users and also this like, you know, of the the innovat innovators' dilemma.

48:56I remember I remember seeing the first Apple Watch and the first iPad being like no, no chance.

49:00And here I am, uh I've got an Apple Watch and I'm probably gonna buy an iPad

49:03At some point.

49:04So it's it's all about it's all about is the f is the first iteration there or is it not?

49:09Right.

49:09I have to be honest.

49:10Every so often someone comes up to me because they know I'm an iPhone lover, right?

49:14And they go up to me and go, oh I did

49:16I'm using Android.

49:17Look how much better it is.

49:18And they go through this like uh process of telling me how much better it is.

49:23And I'm just looking over their shoulder, looking at what they're showing me, and I'm like, not convinced.

49:29convinced and you know the same with someone who switches from Android to you know Apple or Apple to Android you know the the same thing happens in both directions right absolutely Android user would look at an iPhone user and go yeah not convinced

49:40Convinced.

49:40It's just just a preference thing.

49:42It's just a preference thing.

49:44Okay, that's that's it.

49:45That's been a great show.

49:46You can find our show notes uh up on Dayton Podcast

49:49Reach out to us on Twitter at Datum Pod.

49:51And you can find these episodes on pretty much any podcast player you want.

49:55Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Overcast.

49:57Yes, I will be adding a little Spotify button to the website for those of you

50:00Who highlighted to meet that I don't have Spotify there?

50:02We got a question on Friday, like man, you should put your podcast on Spotify.

50:05We're like, but it is.

50:06It already is.

50:07It already is.

50:08In fact, we have 50 listeners on Spotify already.

50:11So get involved, get involved.

50:12And um

50:13Uh and we'll catch you in the next episode um in a couple of weeks time.

50:16Excellent.

50:17Take care, Brian