Exploring DataDevQuest, Comunidatos and the DataDev community with Cristian Saavedra

0:00Christian, how are you?

0:01Hey team, how are you?

0:03Thank you for invitation.

0:05Good.

0:05Welcome, welcome to the channel.

0:07It's um

0:08I think it's been two months since we started saying we should indicate you onto the show to talk about the project you're gonna share, right?

0:15Yes, the thing flows.

0:16Yeah, it does, it does.

0:18My apologies.

0:18Uh you know, li li life's is crazy.

0:20I'm sure you've also been busy and um

0:22I think the beginning of the year is always a very hectic um sort of time to get together, but that's when we all have these ideas to to connect

0:30Um just before we started talking, I asked you how we should say your name correctly.

0:35And I think I got the first name correct.

0:37It's Christian, yeah?

0:38No no emphasis on the on the H.

0:40There we go.

0:41But then I asked you how you say your full name and you have we you had a funny story to share.

0:46So may maybe I'll maybe I'll let you share it.

0:49Yeah, serious.

0:50My my name is Cristian Saavedra.

0:53In fact my name is Cristian de Jesús.

0:56Saavedra de Moina.

0:58Christian, my name, Saavedra my last name, and De Moina, that is French, my second last name.

1:05Right.

1:10We use normally two last names because everybody has kind of the same last names.

1:16Because it's common, like for example in US Smith, that everybody has Smith.

1:22Then that happened a lot in Colombia and because of that the rule is that normally you use two last names

1:29Right.

1:34In the middle thinks like it's the middle name

1:37Right.

1:39Then the the funny history is that the I was in DC last year and took took a picture and then posted picture with my name under

1:48And say Cristian de Moano and remove my real last name and that is Saavedra.

1:54Oh, love it, love it.

1:56That's such good context because I would have got that wrong completely.

1:59And I think um

2:00It's an important part of our identities, I think, getting our names correct, right?

2:03And so I think it's a it's a useful point of context.

2:06You you're a prominent member of the community and I think probably everyone's probably

2:09Mensally made that mistake.

2:11So it's a glad glad we're able to sort of share the context and and share your heritage a bit as well.

2:17You're obviously here to talk about the data dev community, but but but but before we do that, I I just wanted to ask you, how did you get into Tableau in the first place?

2:25Sort of what what made you discover the product and if that makes sense?

2:29Okay.

2:30I

2:31I am blessed to be in data analytics a long time ago.

2:36I have more than 20 years working with this.

2:39I begin with a

2:41as a consulting with a Oracle partner in my C in a big big company's like uh a the biggest coal open sky coal mining the world

2:54Wow.

2:54Then from there I was moving in analytics that I warehouse databases, software, all of this aspect

3:02then I I basically joined to a company that is a telecom telecom company and there they they have a project uh and we use many tools we many

3:13many visualization tools, many analytical tools.

3:17And then one of the time they say no, why don't test our law?

3:20I think there was around

3:232010, 2012.

3:26Wow, really.

3:27Yes.

3:28That I remember is the version I I I use the 9.

3:3204.

3:33That is my first touch a lot.

3:36Yeah.

3:36And I remember that the next version comes with the basically the the 10 that comes with the hyperfiles and redesign

3:45Yeah, Mac support hyperfiles.

3:47That was a big release version 10.

3:49Yeah.

3:50I know before when we were using only the TBS and the export guns and was it older.

3:56Yes, yes.

3:57Hi hyper was a big change, wasn't it?

3:59And I I think it's for everyone who's learned Tableau, the majority of people who've learned Tableau have learned it recently, right?

4:04Even many of the m members of the community that we think are, you know

4:08visionaries or excellent people have all discovered it very recently.

4:12And the history goes way back.

4:15I think you've been in the industry as long as the product has existed.

4:18So you've you've not only seen Tableau probably grow to prominence, but you've also probably

4:22seeing the industry change as well.

4:24So that's that's an incredible journey.

4:26Um to in fact I I was a blessed as I say because in the telecom

4:32In 2008, I was handling around 100 million rows in one table for one day.

4:38And that wow and and then

4:40twenty years after they call it big data and and my I was like uh I mean it's not only big data but you know what it means.

4:47Like the volume and that was my daily before and we don't have the

4:53the the machine that we have now.

4:57Everything would have taken a while, wouldn't it?

5:00I'll come back to that because I think it's an interesting question around how

5:04how the challenges around big data have existed for a long time.

5:09Uh businesses have always been analysing data at scale.

5:12It's just that I think the marketing in products has really focused in on that term.

5:18because uh product marketing is actually latched onto this concept of scale and therefore this term big data makes you think of platforms in a bigger, more robust way, right?

5:29But in reality not much has changed

5:31I mean it is a big changes in the back, but the hardware has definitely changed, so the hardware and also to make it predictable.

5:41In the past, I mean the the keyword is commodity

5:45That you can add more machines and basically in if you need that the process run faster it's only other more machines

5:54That we cannot do it in the past.

5:55I remember that I we have a monster and STL cannot do it.

6:00That's very fair.

6:01That's fair.

6:02And it's good, it's good, it's good that you've also probably

6:05you've you you've had a consistent presence in the in the in the in the space.

6:09So you've seen this evolution happen, probably mostly from a tableau perspective, but also just generally in your role and the work that you're expected to do.

6:17You probably have a very rich career, right?

6:20Yes, it is.

6:21And in fact, about data warehouse, there are two persons that are the key presidents in the um in the com I mean in community, in business and everything.

6:32One is uh Ralph Kimball that is basically exactly you know snowflakes that they how how the the schemas should be the uh modeling to do uh better data warehouses

6:45And another is Bill Aymond that also is an important person in this history about Darrow House and you know that warehouse

6:56and BI is basically can be misleading right now because the marketing can not understand what it really means.

7:05There are people that think that it's a technology and really it's more a

7:09And um in my case I was really blessed because I can work with the Kimball group that is at the end the who is uh the the Kimball.

7:21Um

7:22And uh believe it or not, Bill Lymon, her daughter worked with with me in the I mean in the same company where I was.

7:30Oh wow.

7:31Then we have

7:32But you know I it was funny.

7:36You have incredible heritage and your career and you like the colleagues, it's incredible.

7:41Yes, it is.

7:43That that is that is a key thing for me because

7:46Amazing people is in my path that that if you try to connect with these guys basically it's not possible.

7:54This is correct.

7:55And and I um in fact when I told you about the coal mine

7:59Yeah I don't know if you remember in the past we have uh some microsystem that was buyed by Oracle.

8:08Yes.

8:08All microsystem was a well well knowed because the software is really well designed.

8:14Yeah.

8:15And they have this structure of gurus.

8:18that is kind of uh is a thing that is higher than the concept of the visionaries because are more deeper in knowledge

8:26Yeah.

8:26But but the guru was a few of people in the war.

8:29And I also worked it in the coal mine with a guru in a room that I was there living like eight months consecutive in the middle of a desert

8:38with no one to connect, no internet.

8:41And basically I have like a basically work with you team in the same room every day and I have advises advice that is I mean if I need to pay you

8:52to give me an advice you is going to be uh high the cost yeah yeah yeah that's incredible and you were just there it is it is well so how did you

9:05So, you know, you got into Tableau.

9:08Um, what then led you down, I'm gonna say, the data dev uh route, if that makes sense.

9:14We'll come on to what data dev is in a second, but I think

9:16It's interesting to see that journey and how how people go on that journey.

9:20Because I I don't hear any history around development or coding.

9:23So how did you how did you make that jump?

9:27Okay.

9:40And basically what I need to do I say to do it and and I'm really curious.

9:45I mean I like in some cases I want to know how that works and then get deeper and deeper

9:51And and because of that I connected with the Tableau Datada community.

9:56Um I think that was around

9:592019, 18, when I begin to be more active.

10:04Yeah.

10:05Then I because of that I I know Tristan and I know Merlin.

10:09from that conferences.

10:11Yeah.

10:11And uh begin to have a like a close relation with everybody because the the the cool part with the data that

10:18uh community is that we're small.

10:21If you notice the ambassadors is between

10:26twelve people to twenty maximum.

10:28And each year add like a three more than each within each group.

10:32Yeah, yeah, yeah.

10:33Yeah.

10:33You compare with the other groups that have like a 200 ambassadors.

10:36You know, yeah, yeah.

10:37We are uh then it's easier to have a close formation and like a friendship because also at the same time it we have the same problems and it's difficult to to You all turn to each other.

10:51Yeah, yeah.

10:51What happened there is that I I know a person that for me is a a key person in my life that was Gigi.

10:58I don't Okay, Gigi, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

11:02Gigi is incredible.

11:03Yeah.

11:05and and G G basically was funny, I I was telling if y because we was talking about fe um

11:13few days ago about like if you remember how all of this begins and I basically had I have a problem that I need to test uh something in my in a desktop but but I didn't have a license in my personal computer.

11:28And I asked it to G, hey, how can I get a license?

11:31How can what I need to have a license?

11:33Because I know where this is going where I I don't want to pay, you know.

11:36Yeah, I know where this is going.

11:42And uh basically she told me something in Joe, like uh maybe you need to begin at being ambassador, because the ambassadors get a license request.

11:53And and it's a joke, but at the end I got the ambassador.

11:58Yes.

11:59I I got my embassador uh like a five eight years ago, four years ago.

12:06Is it not easy to remember because the the the years is not the same as the day?

12:13Correct, correct, correct.

12:14But four times in Baja, I mean that should be between four and five years ago.

12:19Yeah, yeah.

12:21It's it's it's um in programming it's called the fence post problem.

12:25I don't know if you know about this, yeah?

12:27So what are you counting?

12:29Are you counting the fence posts or are you counting the gap between the fences, right?

12:33I'll put I'll put a ga I'll put a graphic on the screen because that's a very nerdy thing, but yeah, we can we can talk about it some other time.

12:41But um, you know, this is incredible.

12:44So you talk to Gigi, she says, you know, you need a license.

12:47He says, Oh, go become ambassador's a joke.

12:49Here you are, your ambassador four four times in a row, right?

12:53Well that's not the reason, but it's funny that I remembered That was the start of the conversation.

12:58Exactly, exactly.

12:59And so yeah, dig digging into it a little bit more then, um, like what made you sort of

13:04go into the the APIs, like what what kind of got you into that?

13:08You talked about Merlin, you talked about Tristan.

13:10What is it that they were working on that sort of made you intrigued or what

13:14What problems were you trying to solve?

13:15Maybe that's a better way to sort of frame frame the direction.

13:18Oh man first I try to the issue that I have and is it's a course of icons all my life.

13:25is that I I am so busy that I need to free my time.

13:30Right.

13:31Because at the same the people begin to ask me, how you do that?

13:34How you do that?

13:35And then begin to drag my time.

13:37And because of that I I comes to I need to automate it.

13:40I need to do something that it works by himself.

13:43I need to do something that I can give to another person and can continue.

13:47and that is when the data that for me was a oh bless because I need to you know that uh I have troubles for example in the past I was working in a in a unicorn company

14:01And in this one they want they have this issue.

14:05On the weekends, they they refresh the tableau by schedule

14:10And then the data was not ready and the the meeting was at six a.

14:15m.

14:16or seven a.

14:16m.

14:17every Monday

14:18Then when they come there, basically they have troubles because the data was not reflecting what it is.

14:26Because basically the pronoun the scode.

14:28Then uh my first data dev project was basically create uh uh something that check when the data is ready.

14:37And then in that moment, only in this moment refresh.

14:41Refresh the data.

14:42Yeah.

14:42Then it was a simple one, but

14:45have a so impact in the company because the people told me, hey, thanks you because now I can sleep on we on weekends.

14:53We can't then

14:57That is my first part when I touch Datadev as a something that I I see it, that I use it.

15:04And from there I begin to learn more about the REST APIs, more about the

15:09the extensions.

15:11For example, Merlin did a really cool extension in that time that is the the Mario Rose equivalent.

15:19Yeah.

15:19Then I want to say, okay, how he do it.

15:22And then because I am curious, I try to understand it.

15:25And that is how I begin with the stations and the all of this stuff

15:30It's incredible.

15:31Incredible.

15:32Yeah, and then and then here we are.

15:33Um, you know, uh to twenty years into your career, you're you're you're here, you're talking about it, and um

15:40I think we're gonna get into the the project shortly, but I think let's let's start let's start at the basic because everyone's probably watching going, what is a day to dev?

15:48Like what do you mean developing?

15:50Because I I'll I'll I'll get something off my chest which really annoys me.

15:54Um recruiters and HR people in the community, and I to be fair, us as well, we call ourselves Tableau developers, right?

16:04But I always find this term really confusing because to me, a developer is very different from someone who just knows how to use a piece of software.

16:15The analogy I always give is we don't call people who are good as Excel Excel developers, do we?

16:20Like we just call them Excel users.

16:22Um we don't call PowerPoint

16:24People who know how to use PowerPoint PowerPoint developers, we just call them, you know, analysts or consultants or whatever whatever we we call them.

16:31I know

16:32But I think this term tableau developers makes it very confusing for your s for you for your own group because in very much you're the actual developers.

16:42You are developing capabilities, using the API.

16:46um i in the sort of true sense of the term developer, right?

16:51Whereas Tableau developers from an analyst perspective, I think is

16:55um not not quite reflective of what's going on.

16:58And that's not to say people aren't building things in Tableau.

17:01People build dashboards and apps, but I just think that split is very, very confusing.

17:05So what is the difference between um what you do data dev and being a tableau developer, as people like to call them, you know, someone who builds a dashboard?

17:15What is the big difference?

17:16Um to be honest, in my case I think that bore both kind of people share something that is the deals.

17:24I mean at the end

17:26developers as a tableau person that take a from nothing take a data mo modify it

17:35show in a way that is useful and create beautiful dashboards, beautiful and that takes the attention of the people and make easier decisions.

17:46It's not so different to a person that they hold and basically produce something that

17:54Because I I feel like uh we share something about artists, you know, in the middle it's a triangle.

18:00It's basically a triangle.

18:01You need to do in my case I am an engineer, then I you can call it different ways, but this mindset of

18:08procedurally, you know, understand all the processes and understand things how that works.

18:13The another part of the the the triangle is business.

18:17Like I really understand what the people need to take decisions.

18:21And the last one is like an artist.

18:24Then we share, I'm sure, that between Tableau developer as the person who works more with producing dashboard or notebooks or using Tableau as a front end.

18:35use create something with that yeah share with the people who is in the back end and produce code or produce other products no yeah

18:45Yeah.

18:45But uh but yes it's it's confusing.

18:48That is why the the real developer part we call it is only data depth.

18:54Because then you say okay, datab is these guys is the person who knows about race APIs and knows about I don't know Metata API, hyper API, and also how internally works

19:07Yeah.

19:08You know, like I I don't know, not too many people know that at the end the tableau use XML files and the rank on

19:16then uh uh I just have a conversation with a friend that need to change uh these table that have like our one hundred columns.

19:25And then an easy way is basically all to the XML and re-replace.

19:31I did that just last week.

19:33Wow.

19:34Yeah, yeah.

19:35I did that just last week.

19:37I was like

19:37I need to change this connection.

19:39The only thing that's different is a schema.

19:41Everything else is exactly the same because it's just like prod and dev.

19:45So I just like

19:46just faster as XML.

19:47If you try and do this in the workbook it's gonna it's just take too it takes really long 'cause then it's gonna change all the connections, you have to rebuild your model, it th then your colors will go and your styles will go and then it's just like oh no but one change in the XML.

20:04Then coming to your question, maybe I think that the big difference is that the mindset that we have is more to automate.

20:10to free time and reproduce.

20:12In the the people who use a developer as a develop dashboard try to do it basically

20:19More like a develop a product and and deliver the product.

20:24But if you want to reuse it, it's not the mindset of reusing.

20:29But there is the big difference, but the rest we are trying to do the same.

20:33Yeah, exactly, exactly.

20:35To be fair, it's very fair, you know

20:37I started off with the frustration and you've you've brought me back into the into the Centagram.

20:41We're all part of the same community at the end of the day, so we've I appreciate it.

20:46So um we've talked a little about data dev.

20:48Maybe I'll I'll give you the floor a little bit to talk about

20:52the project that you you you're you're part of but then also we can have a look at the data dev community community datos which you're part of and you can kind of share that so um

21:00Should we start with the projects that you're working on and then we can kind of transition to to the other parts, yeah?

21:06Sure.

21:06Uh previous to go to there, I want to to um

21:10Thanks to Rosario Gauna.

21:12Rosario was the first person that that basically she pushed me to be in the community.

21:19Independent of the data type stuff.

21:21She she she pushed me is like uh I need to be closer with the community she showed me the people here, she showed me this great community.

21:30And that is me without her I am not here.

21:33It's basically between Didi uh and Rosario was the the original person that pushed me that

21:39And also uh my friends from Comunidad's that give me the last four years um like uh it's a big five because

21:47It's not too much information in Spanish.

21:51And basically what we we try to do is more like a gift resources.

21:57And give more opportunities because there are smart people from our countries.

22:04I mean in Latin countries are really smart, but because have the barrier of the language

22:09Yeah.

22:09Then is basically doesn't have the same uh options.

22:13True, true, true, very true, very true.

22:16Lots of the content is in English and so it's freely available, but if it's not if it's not um

22:21available in your native language, um, English becomes a barrier.

22:25And and not only that, I think the way things are explained can be very different in different cultures.

22:31So

22:32Um a concept that maybe works really well in English, maybe doesn't work so well in in Spanish.

22:36So you do need a little bit of an effort to you know

22:40Create like um a localized reference, not just for the language, but also the concepts that you use to teach as well.

22:46It's really important.

22:50Let me let me share and I can begin maybe let's begin with communidad tools.

22:57The first is uh this project is something that comes from the heart

23:02As I say, we try to help the people to broke the barrier of the language and basically have a monthly or kind of a monthly

23:14uh presentation in a talk that that is called Comunidad.

23:18We are the biggest community.

23:22uh in Spanish and we are growing and so growing that we are really happy that begins as a virtual talk

23:33And now we have a local talks that is also represented from the the the first one.

23:40Then we we have this concept of like a sell

23:43That you multiply the cell, and then basically now we are in Mexico Peru, Costa Rica, Buenos Aires, and we are growing

23:51DNA that for us is is really happy because it's not only that you didn't a force and now the

23:58you make uh so you ch you have others is that also others begin to replicate the same as you and you feel that it's a snow for a snowball of

24:09instead of problems a snowball of good things that comes.

24:12Yeah, yeah.

24:14That's really good.

24:15So I didn't realize that you had um these different subgroups as well.

24:19In Comunicatos we are

24:21They basically b the the people that is here is amazing.

24:31These is that we are between the ambassadors and visionaries.

24:35Yeah.

24:35As envisionaries we have Pablo Gomez, Diego Bar, and me currently, but we also had

24:45Paola and Rui and and Rui that both are working now with Salesforce and that is why they they have to

24:54They have to step out, yeah.

24:56Makes sense, makes sense, makes sense.

24:57And as ambassadors also we have Jamil uh um Paula Murz that she's with me in the in the Dara D community

25:07And Victor that y Calderón that is a talk leader also as ambassador.

25:13I mean we are uh good people there and this one is only the leaders.

25:18I mean that there are more people there that is

25:22True, true, true.

25:22Yeah, it's a it's a community as it were, right?

25:24And I think um leaders are just, I guess, the um

25:30the the pinnacle of the group, right?

25:31The many people that make make um make make the communities.

25:35That's incredible.

25:36Um yeah, I I hope it continues to grow and I think um

25:40The other thing is, you know, talks like this, but also you um people like yourselves are showcasing, I think, the non-traditional aspects of Tableau, for example, say

25:51When you when you Google Tableau, the first thing you'll probably see how to do is build a dashboard, right?

25:56Um, but it's interesting for people to know that they can have a place in the community.

26:00Um we're doing non-tableau development kind of things if that makes sense.

26:05So not dashboard building, but being an engineer

26:08um working across the stack, working with APIs, automating things, right?

26:12All of these things are things that actually there's a there's a thriving community of people with those skills from those communities who can also take part in the in the product

26:21Yes it is.

26:22And that is why basically my second uh project or the pro the the second project where I am active right now

26:30is um uh that as a group we just launched it the last friday as a re renew because in the past was a group that was handled by Kyle and Zach.

26:43And it's in the past they they was called Tableau Holders Initiative.

26:48And and now between some friends from the community, leaders, in ambassadors, all of all of them.

26:54Basically we uh rebranded and created the datade user group.

27:00That's a nice.

27:01And the idea here is more like a bring this and I

27:05Uh only uh as uh initially as a monthly uh meeting, but basically bring

27:14how we can do example of datadeb and in the future if is is possible basically bring interviews and and things that in the datade community is highlighted.

27:26Because the first problem that we have with the datade

27:28is that it's not enough like examples is when tra when you go first Tableau has a lot of data depth

27:37If we go to the page that is table developer or developer dot table dot com

27:44Basically you go here you will see that you we have these areas.

27:51Okay.

27:52But if we connect we select any one of these areas, if we go, I don't know, to connectors

27:58Then basically if we go to connect, yeah, the page is a bit confusing.

28:06So this is the page, yeah.

28:07Yeah, yeah.

28:08The uh is that is uh like a month ago or two months ago was rebranded and tracked, but it's still in working process.

28:17That is why it's still the the internal ones is the old version.

28:22But basically if we go to each of them you will see there is many options that is completely like uh for example R as a language

28:31It's completely different people who use it compared with the Python.

28:35Python.

28:36Or if we are talking about APIs, it's basically like a

28:42more the web development area or more the backend related when you're using hyper API is basically creating a physical

28:53a file that is more databases knowledge, then is completely different persons inside of the data lab.

29:00or the way how the thinking is complete different things inside of the data, then the first problem that we notice is that it's difficult to learn about this

29:11because the the the examples is not there.

29:15I mean when I when I learn uh when I go to the

29:20documentation and the GitHub of each of them basically I need to have a pretty knowledge of how the other people do a software that is enterprise or then it's confusing

29:33Because of that is that many of the community and this is a dream that we have a long time ago.

29:38Like I remember this conversation in the last three or four years.

29:43is uh only that this year was the first time that we say let's do it and then basically with a few friends from the community uh I'm going to mention the the person here

29:56Um we created this challenge that is called Tablota Radquest.

30:00Yes.

30:01If we go to the about us, basically

30:05We will see the the person involved is first Kyle that is one of the yeah yeah I'm a Kyle yeah the Uncle Kyle Michael is on the the the visionary

30:17with Ambassador and me in the data dep and and we was really lucky because at the beginning we was between now of three we say okay guys all of us deserve

30:27I don't know if you do get it because it's difficult that one person like three person get in the same spot, you know

30:38What does Spider-Man mean where you're all pointing at each other?

30:41Yes.

30:43But at the same we talk between us and say, hey

30:47the everybody deserves and I hope that the tree can pass and then with the tree pass it and we was really happy.

30:55I I say to them that I I I am more happy that the three of them pass and get the the missionary than than get it by myself only.

31:06Because uh we are friends

31:08Yeah, Jordan that is amazing.

31:11Uh Jordan is a person who don domain the the the REST API in fact

31:17he is one of the biggest contributor in some library that that is called a Taulo server uh client that is that so much, wow, it's amazing.

31:31basically everything that is new, everything that is there is Jordan is the guy in background doing that.

31:39He was in the past heavily using in in the

31:43uh administration part and that is why he began to be active in that and now it's like uh his baby and and from the I did not know that that's so customy so amazing

31:54Paula Muñoz, that is uh I know Paula, she's really amazing.

32:00I bring to Comunidad todos and the rest of the team.

32:04basically say that she she needs to join as a leader in comunidad because it's really his vibe is amazing.

32:12She knows he's organized and I want to help.

32:16And and the same happened with the tableau that's all then she had the opportunity to join to us and he did an amazing uh

32:25I don't know if you saw it, but there is a product that she did for document the World Book.

32:38I think I um there's a few of those, but I think I did see hers, yeah.

32:43Let me let me try and remind myself.

32:45And also Sack

32:46who who who was in the community with us in the in the original team that is tape uh coders the uh tableau coders initiative

32:57Basically Kyle and Zach was the owner of that and then they agree to rename the group and also expand to all of these leaders.

33:07Then the same leaders is basically the ones that are in the that are the challenge.

33:15We call it that are the quest.

33:17And the idea of this challenge is that we have a mountain challenge.

33:21Um how the weekly works is that we have two levels.

33:26For example, if I'm going to show the mime and then after that the last one that is cycle.

33:32But basically, if you go to the list, then you can see oh this one is the beginning one.

33:38And this one is the uh intermediate one.

33:41I see.

33:42Then if you said I don't have any idea about how to do uh that other okay

33:48In my case I and that should that rise the the level because uh I have a conversation with Jordan that oh

33:55Now we need to follow Christian now.

33:57But the idea that I have in my mind is more like a show you a step by step

34:03What do you need to do from scratch?

34:06Give you a lot of resources and I have my own block, then basically you can go there and and see

34:13But but that they try to do it is in the old way of the documentation.

34:17Like a state, like a weird photos that you are.

34:22Yes, it is.

34:23And that is the full idea that basically explains you okay

34:26You need to configure that, but what is this?

34:28And then you can click it and see more.

34:30Yeah, personal access token.

34:31See link to the actual documentation.

34:33That's so important because so much of Tableau is like using a term inside of a term

34:38You know, yeah, you can you can you can say a whole sentence just using marketing terms.

34:42It is, it is, and and in our world the problem is that it's so complex and so so that it you you will see this

34:52circles around with many technologies and in some moment you you are I mean I am loss of what you're referring to.

35:00Yeah exactly yeah but it's too much it's too much.

35:02Yeah yeah

35:04Okay, then basically here I I show you a div uh developer uh sorry a beginner challenge

35:12And and I at the end of you can replicate all of these steps and it's going to work.

35:17But I give you a like an extra challenge, like a hey, can you how can you do a republish and tell me why it's failing

35:25Then it's a tricky one and then the person that is really curious is going to learn a lot and at the end I I show the isolation the the

35:34solution and I explain the challenge of what you need to do and why.

35:40The same for the intermedia.

35:43The only thing is that the intermedia is a little less plana explain.

35:49I basically go more to the point of what you need to do.

35:53And here you will get more like a bigger challenge.

35:57Like a for example, let me go to the top

36:03And uh sorry this one is the Jordan one.

36:07Then uh I click the wrong one

36:13Yeah.

36:14And here, for example, the challenge is more about

36:19Take for example look this is this this is uh I love it.

36:22This one is um this is a visualization that did Kyle and if you click in each of them is going to change the circle and the values.

36:33And all of this is a parameter, then it's a parameter selection, right?

36:39Related with parameters

36:41Then that I want to do is print these in a PDF by each of the values.

36:48then it's it's something that you cannot do right now by default in television.

36:51Yeah in default yeah but but imagine that that you have a PDF with all the possible combinations

36:58and say okay if it's a FIFA revolution and they have a PDF is something that the market team normally needed

37:08because uh the man the people who is working in marketing media when when do this dashboard that is more um

37:16that is more visual, that is not only for take decision, it's because it's true is is basically something that they want printed, right?

37:23Yeah.

37:25These things, these kind of things can do it with the data dev

37:28And that is why we try to do these examples that you learn, but at the same time help you to common problem that you have every day

37:39I was I was gonna say this is very good because it gives you um when you're stuck you'll Google hopefully and you'll find this blog and when you find this blog I think this example is short enough

37:53for you to be able to learn how it works and then apply it directly to your work immediately after, right?

38:00These are not like

38:01big coding projects with like a three-week course, you know, that's gonna take you seven hours or something.

38:07It's I'm I've got a problem.

38:09I need to do this.

38:10Oh, there's a way to do it and it's got the API.

38:12Cool.

38:12Let me have a look at this

38:14Spend 30 minutes learning it.

38:16Maybe I can then spend another hour implementing it on my own work.

38:19And I can do that in half a day.

38:21Very nice

38:22Yes.

38:22And the also the the full idea of that is that you now you know that it's possible to do it.

38:28Now you know that exists a technology in this case, for example, press API.

38:32and begin to spark the sh the the you know like uh give you a light hey you can do these things and now you say oh what else I can do and then begin to

38:44deep in in what you can do because it's amazing what we can do with with data dep.

38:48The only thing is that not too much people know it.

38:51It's basically yeah.

38:53So that is that is that we try to help, like a solve this issue showing by by example.

38:58And it's also for us.

39:01because uh Jordan for example is an expert with the Red Ress API.

39:05I use it a lot but he is all the top of the RAS API

39:10then when he published her his sorcery, uh when he published hers, his gl his cost, I learned a lot

39:19Because it's more challenging in a way that I never thought that it's possible to do something that he he was saying

39:27Yeah.

39:27Or right now we have the last one that Kyle mentioned that is a common problem with with uh with administration.

39:36Like uh hey I already have this connection and I need to change it

39:39then uh what i what i can change what i cannot change how i can do it massive because i have a lot of of uh somebody changed a connection and loves me

39:50a weekend doing that, how can I do a script that can run this every time that I need it and nothing else?

39:57Yeah.

39:59Yeah.

39:59Um that you can build like um tools, essentially.

40:03Yeah.

40:04Or to fill gaps that

40:06come up in your business all the time.

40:07Like it's it's you know if you have to do these things once, chances are it's not going to be the first and it's not going to be the last time you have to do it, right?

40:13So

40:14um being able to repeat it is very good and making it easy for yourself so you you you can A document it B have a process but also

40:22you can build a solution that other people can potentially use, right?

40:26You don't have to just um stop with your your own help.

40:29Yes for it.

40:31And in the the community you you will see that that

40:36Is beginning to create products.

40:38For example, the case of Merlin and Tristan.

40:42That uh is is not only this uh extensions or dashboard extension anymore, it's basically

40:49No, I am thinking about the water chunks uh visualization, something like that, like a specific product you have in mind

40:57or connections, migration.

41:01I know for example that uh toy vistory um um

41:08Team has a a product for migration.

41:12Oh Timothy Van Malen, yeah?

41:15Yeah, the um the cloud the server to cloud migration.

41:19Yeah.

41:20All right.

41:20All right.

41:20Yeah.

41:21Um built on the SDK, I think.

41:24Um from that the ease to

41:27uh you know create companies products or inside of the companies create products that that is something for example in my case that we are trying to do i I am working right now in CO Matrix

41:39that that is a consulting company for uh tableau we are the second partner in tableau right now and uh uh

41:48One of the things that we are doing is creating internal products for the data that is using data dev.

41:56I'm really happy to work with this company.

41:59It's amazing what we are doing.

42:01And and that is all.

42:03I mean uh is uh it's a good opportunity to bring this data type stuff to customers.

42:11And uh believe it or not, it's in the past was seen more like a script only, you know?

42:16Yeah, it's true.

42:17Uh and and people frown upon scripts, right?

42:20Because they think of them as like um

42:23unsupported shadow IT, you know, you know, things in the background.

42:28But when you when you polish them up, um you turn them into sort of robust products.

42:33Um suddenly people trust them all, right?

42:36And and you can then start to, you know.

42:40I think that's when the real creativity begins because, you know

42:43If I take um you know the two examples you've you've given, uh Timothy, Tristan, Infotopics, the first things they did were all experiments.

42:53But there were experiments that they then turned into things that the community could use, you know, very easily.

42:59And once they did that

43:01the gap to then make into a product was very small because by making it visible to the community it showed that these projects, these sort of experiments can actually be very um easy to use, reliable, and if they've been thought through well

43:16then they're actually very are easy to adopt, right?

43:20And it's something that's not been common before in Tableau because I think a lot of people had scripts in the past, but they weren't very accessible.

43:27You needed to know the language to run them and they didn't have that package.

43:31So with Tableau APIs in general, it feels like we're getting to the place now where there's so many APIs and there's so many ways to work with them.

43:39And more more thought is being put into how to package them so people like myself who maybe aren't big developers can can use them a lot more.

43:49Yes, well that is happening.

43:52That is happening.

43:53Good.

43:54Good.

43:55So with this project, I guess, um you've got you've obviously got like um uh like a a a pretty keen audience.

44:05I I'm trying to wonder like

44:07Do you think you'll get to a place where maybe you've done this for a year, two years, f uh five years, um

44:15Where do you kind of see the opportunity with not just the Tableau world we have today, but the Tableau of the future where, I mean, from from what I can see, more and more APIs are being created.

44:28The example I give you is this QL data service, right?

44:33That API is the same API that powers Tableau Pulse.

44:38Right?

44:39And it's interesting the Tableau have built that so they can build Tableau Pulse, but then they've also made it available to developers to build their own solutions on top of Tableau.

44:51And then having built Tableau Pulse, they've also then gone and built another API.

44:56So you can embed Tableau Pulse.

44:58So you can you have so many different levels that the same API is enabling.

45:03And there's so many different options to get involved.

45:05And so the the question I'm trying to frame to you is where do you see sort of the opportunity for you know what you do and what other people are doing in the community to to go?

45:15Um

45:16Do you see it opening up even more or do you see it as a challenge?

45:19And and then maybe there's there's areas where Tableau could open up even faster, if that makes sense.

45:24There is a lot of opportunities

45:27First using what we have right now because basically you can solve issues of integration

45:35you have you can solve vision of automatization like something that you do many times and need to reduce the time.

45:42Right.

45:43And that is because of that

45:45uh basically tableau is seen as uh we need to invest and create more of this.

45:52Yeah.

45:53And is for set because for example now to need to integrate with uh Salesforce.

46:00And that the people don't know is that basically previous to this integration we have the embedded JavaScript.

46:07Yes.

46:08The disembedded JavaScript API without that is

46:12It's impossible to put the self-force look and work with the tableau.

46:17And because that exists, is that now as quickly the the connection and basically

46:24So the version 3 API is what you're talking about.

46:27The same with the hyperfiles.

46:28For example, the hyperfiles, if I know well, the hyperfiles now is not only using for Tableau

46:34the the hyper is uh is an interesting buyer because it's fast how internally works and uh now is using other products inside of cell force than he's using hyper

46:48Yeah.

46:48And and only it's available because we have the hyper API.

46:53Yeah.

46:54Then there is a the there is a line with begin to divide our law and divide to to split it in okay, it's not our law anymore.

47:02But it's part of the what is Tableau that's the mission.

47:06At the end the mission of Tableau is basically that the people can take decisions.

47:10without technical knowledge, without to to oh I need to have the experience that Ting and Christian has to know.

47:19The idea is like you have the problem, more near the problem is

47:23this the tools is in your hands more me more easy that this the solutions happens because the only person that knows how to solve it is the person who is in the front line

47:35Yeah.

47:37Then uh is is a line that is beginning to you know like a split.

47:43Yeah, it's getting becoming hard.

47:44Yeah.

47:47That that the B sql that are services, there is anomaly.

47:50You recognize that law because the visual

47:53And all the market feature around is that this is visualization tool to basically have a difference between BI and visualization.

48:03Yeah.

48:03Okay, but when you remove the visualization is a stick tableau.

48:06What is it?

48:07Yeah, yeah, yeah.

48:08You you've you've just you've said something really profound, it just blew my mind because

48:12I've been I've been struggling with this framing because I keep trying to explain to people like what is tablet?

48:20And the way I explain it today

48:24is I show them all the places the Tableau works.

48:28So I show them the cloud, I show them all these things.

48:31But your concept is actually much more powerful.

48:34It it's my Tableau is a is a philosophy.

48:38Around how you handle data, right?

48:41And that philosophy can live both inside of Salesforce and the Tableau ecosystem.

48:47Doesn't matter where it goes, now in web products, wherever it goes

48:52it sort of transcended the products that we are used to.

48:54I think that's a really powerful way to frame it because I think in the community we're still too stuck on

49:00Is that desktop?

49:01Is that cloud?

49:02Is that is that thing?

49:03And actually, maybe this is why you're a data dev.

49:07You as a community have already realized that there is more to Tableau than just the surface level products, right?

49:14And I think that's it's a very good way to frame it.

49:16I love it, I love it.

49:17And I have a history that maybe you remember.

49:21Uh previous to Tableau, we have uh a big dependency with AT.

49:26In fact I I worked within IT in that time.

49:28And uh previous to Tableau, the different is that basically the why how that works is hey, I have a decision maker person that that is saying I need this, I need to know what is happening to take a decision.

49:41And this person basically goes to uh magicians or masters in IT that produce a model or a universe is collecting many ways in the legacy tools.

49:53And these models basically bring to the person and say okay, but this number that you saw here essential.

50:00This number that is here is basically categorization.

50:07then but the guy who was in in the model doesn't know that and created as a as a number then summer and then the problem is that this guy needs to come back and say no change it and this iteration is slow

50:22The big changes that Tableau did, um, as I remember, is that basically the person who has the problem can change the model by himself.

50:29Correct.

50:30And when you basically took that and say that is not fit with me, that I need it this way.

50:35And by the way, I can't and and maybe marketing is something

50:39Maybe in a charter sort, maybe in commercial area is completely different.

50:43Basically everybody can manipulate it the model and say, hey, that is how I works to me.

50:49And then now I can take a decision.

50:51Yeah.

50:51Then if that is the question, yeah.

50:56It's not only the visualization, it's more deeper the the the the product

51:01And that is why in Tableau DataDev you can connect all these pieces and give the same power using applications.

51:11Yeah.

51:12Yeah, it's much more powerful that way as well.

51:16That last thing you've said there about applications.

51:19I think it's an interesting um

51:23It's an interesting journey that I think Tableau and a lot of analytics tools are going through.

51:30Um there is this sort of concept that dashboards are dying, right?

51:34Because they don't

51:35They don't they don't always answer the question.

51:37We build a lot of dashboards, but then we look at their utilization, there's a low pickup and why it's because people are struggling to get the answer they need from those dashboards.

51:46So there's this idea of apps being, you know, being developed.

51:50And I've always had this concept for a video in my head, which is

51:54Should that dashboard be a dashboard or should it be an app?

51:57Because I think so often people are intending to build apps, but they're putting it into a dashboard and then it's not quite it's not quite good and it's clunky and they're using hacks to make it work.

52:08Then they should just go build the apps, you know, use the APIs, use the wonderful power of the web to get what you need in the right format and the right context and build the app you want to build, right?

52:19Build the solution.

52:20Tableau can still be part of it.

52:23Right, and that distinction I think just isn't explored enough.

52:27Um, but sometimes you have this idea that apps are like

52:31You've probably seen this.

52:33Someone someone say you have a Tableau app and you look at it and it's just a dashboard with lots of parameters, lots of set actions, and it's it's got all these things configured.

52:41And it's impressive.

52:42Don't get me wrong, it's really impressive how they're built.

52:45But to me it's not it's not like it's not the essence of what a nap is supposed to be, right?

52:51Um that is the limitations because I I already did it and I have

52:57I mean pages that looks like an app, but really is a dashboard that does stuff that plays.

53:03But when you want to see it as a mobile

53:05is not working as you expected.

53:08Then you can do it in another way.

53:10You can do like a create an app in a mobile world.

53:15And use the SDKs that is also part of the data there.

53:18We have the bootstrap SDK for for development.

53:21And basically bring the data there.

53:24But now recently like a year or two years ago uh is BDS that is

53:32BSQ B secure data services.

53:35And now with that basically we can have a difference and say, okay, now I connect to the data and I can visualize in another interface.

53:44That tomorrow who knows?

53:45Maybe I mean maybe we are talking to a machine and the machine talking to us with the with the baggage.

53:52Maybe we are going to see a 3D word

53:55Who not?

53:57Yeah, I have a Vision Pro on my desk and I've I've I've beta tested the um the Tableau Research project they had for the app and it's not it's not great, but I do I do have

54:08Very strong opinions about viewing data in context, not necessarily in 3D, but I'm talking like if you're an architect or you work in retail.

54:18Um retail is a good one because sometimes it it really matters where you put things on the shop floor and how they perform.

54:25So imagine being able to, you know, look at the shop floor but visualize the sales data in real time.

54:32on the floor and be able to see the trends and see, oh, everything on the aisle is selling really, really well.

54:38What can we move to the aisle that needs to perform better?

54:41Right?

54:41Those kinds of things to me are just

54:44natural opportunities.

54:45Um if you work in architecture, if you work in civil engineering, being able to look at I don't know, bridge and then being able to see all the maintenance record.

54:52as a dataviz in context of the bridge.

54:55All of these things think are super exciting.

54:57So that that's why I invisioned prayer because I keep thinking this world is not that far away and this is like the first

55:05um first opportunity to to sort of really start to think about these ideas in a in a deep way.

55:11So um that's that's something I'm super passionate about.

55:14Maybe maybe I'll uh

55:15I'll come to the data dev community.

55:17We'll start trying to learn a few minutes.

55:19I'm slowly learning a few things, but still not fast enough.

55:23Welcome team.

55:24Anytime you read it.

55:26Good good.

55:27Well look this discussion has been super interesting.

55:30I I love it.

55:31So um we'll try and put links to everything

55:34you've shown um in the description so that everyone can can can access.

55:39I'll go through the the the session today and I'll share everything you've shared because I think it is important to

55:46Genuinely try, right?

55:48Because I think the thing about this data dev sort of community is it can look intimidating, right?

55:54Because the minute you see code, you're like, okay, that's not for me

55:57Um, you know, people have tried coding and I think the one thing I learned is when you learn something new like this, you need to find a good

56:07community in which to do it.

56:09And by community I'm not just talking about people.

56:11I'm talking it could be like a Reddit thread, it could be um a Slack channel, it could be a forum, whatever that community is.

56:19You need a community where you can see an example of yourself achieving that solution, right?

56:26Because once you see an example of yourself, you're more likely to keep trying.

56:30Once you realize that everyone makes mistakes, you're more likely to carry on and push through.

56:36And I think once you've built something, you do need to be able to show it to someone because that's when you get the best feedback, right?

56:43And so I really urge everyone to genuinely take part.

56:48Like if you see something and you get stuck, genuinely just reach out.

56:51Reach out to people and ask for help.

56:53Because there's so many people I know because

56:55I've reached out to a few people and they've helped me, right?

56:57And I'm not I'm not trying to learn this stuff.

57:00I'm just trying to sort of solve a problem.

57:01Um and the community is always very responsive.

57:04So find a good community, uh whether it's day-to-dev, community datos, whatever you're doing

57:09Find a good community, ask the questions, and someone in that community will hopefully know someone who can help you answer the problem they're trying to solve.

57:16So um highly encourage it.

57:18Um but yeah

57:19A any any closing thoughts from you, Christian?

57:22I think that um another thing that also if you can do a part of what you say

57:27is connect with the leaders.

57:29Yes.

57:31We are normal people.

57:33We are not saying no you are now a mutual.

57:37How can I call you?

57:38I am the same guy.

57:39I am the same Christian.

57:41Yeah.

57:47You know, it's under that.

57:49Then there are many leaders in the community that thinks the same way.

57:53In fact, I I think that the majority of us think in the same way.

57:58then maybe it's a good way to connect with us as hey count what I can begin, what I can do with this stuff.

58:07The problem is that if you try you think that I'm going to do it by you.

58:10No.

58:11That is the way.

58:15teach you to fish and then you fish for yourself.

58:18Right.

58:19Correct.

58:19Right.

58:20And that that is a fair criticism.

58:21Lots of people do maybe hope for someone to give them a quick answer and then they wonder why they've not learned that skill.

58:28Yes.

58:28Yes.

58:30And uh right now for example with the I stuff that is easier for learn about data depth because I

58:39Hey, do you know that that Anya Anya's my colleague?

58:46He's a visionary, is that adept too?

58:49And Anya, I uh I we we have a conversation a long time ago because his husband is Colombian too.

58:55Then uh then uh uh is it's a joke, but Anya does

58:59her background is not in technical areas.

59:04Then historian and business then comes to the data community.

59:08Yeah, yeah, yeah.

59:09And I and I always mention her because it's an example of hey you can do it too.

59:14It's not only for special uh you know like a skills or correct because uh no it's not.

59:22It's basically

59:23only break the frontier that hey I need to do something I now I know that it's possible to do it with these new tools and learn how to use it

59:34Yeah.

59:35Yeah yeah yeah.

59:36I Anya's a colleague of mine at Aimpoint and um she's always sharing uh articles that relate to our uh her her love for history, like uh and and art as well actually

59:48And it's it's incredible because yeah, I'm familiar with her story.

59:51She was also at the data school at the information lab.

59:53So I've known Anya for for quite some time.

59:56And her journey's been incredible, uh genuinely.

59:59And like her her talk when she talked about the VisQL data service at DataFam Europe was really well received, full, full house.

60:09And that was incredible to see 'cause um people have a lot to learn from her, but also um I think you need beacons like that to say exactly what you said, you know.

60:21That journey is for anyone.

60:23It it's not about the background you have.

60:26It's just about again being curious, keep pushing, take it in small steps, because this is another thing I think you probably know

60:36You can't just sit down and decide to become a developer.

60:38It's lots of small steps that you take, right?

60:41And they build up.

60:43They cumulatively build up.

60:44And and

60:46Only by doing it consistently for a long period of time.

60:50You know, do you do people look at you as a developer, but you never felt like you became a developer.

60:54You were just solving one problem at a time.

60:57Yeah.

60:57And then suddenly apparently you're the developer, right?

61:00Yes it is.

61:01Uh and now you mentioned that to me it was funny because I I begin to

61:06I mean I I I I don't like the word code, colder, because I think that is the phone the concept.

61:13But basically I begin to program at around eight, ten years old.

61:17in the eighties and that at the time at that time I have a few friends that know about programming and coding.

61:24And in fact during the years it was difficult to find people that like this stuff because everybody said no I don't like it.

61:31I don't want to do that.

61:32And now my kids is I don't know five or seven years old and is they already know a lot of programming that I was working on.

61:44Then it's it's only maybe that that happened with us is that we are in a different time.

61:48Like uh if we can try and try travel to the time and but that is going to happen anyway.

61:54Because the problem is there and the solution is there.

61:57Then it's only to know and connect and begin to use it.

62:00Nothing else.

62:01Yeah.

62:02Amazing.

62:03Amazing.

62:04Christian, thank you so much for your time.

62:06It's um been really, really um I think it's been a really rewarding chat for me because I think it's just reminded me like um

62:16how how important is to sort of challenge yourself.

62:20Because the the I'll I'll be honest.

62:21I the reason I've not gone into development so much, so

62:25is because I think I've stayed comfortable with what I'm good at, right?

62:28I'm good at just explaining Tableau.

62:30I'm good at just telling people about the platform.

62:32I know what the APIs are.

62:33I can point at them.

62:34I can tell you what they do, but I I never touch them.

62:37So I think it's been great to talk to you because I think it's you just have to get over that hurdle.

62:42You just have to try and fix a problem.

62:44And um the the the showcase you've got.

62:46I might try and do them.

62:47Hope hopefully you don't mind me uh doing them.

62:50I'll try and do them and uh maybe I'll I'll post the videos like a month after I've done them and you can kind of see see see some of the ones I do and

62:58um see how that works.

62:59Uh maybe I'll get I'll come to you for feedback as well.

63:02But I think it's a super interesting um if anytime you want to create a challenge for for the data.

63:11They'll then make it.

63:13That is actually the best way to learn to create a challenge for the rest of the community to solve, right?

63:18Because then you have to know it well enough for it to be a challenge.

63:20It's interesting that part.

63:22It's not the same

63:23Learn something, solve a problem, that wrote a document that explained to other people how you can learn about it.

63:31And at that one moment you say, okay, something that is basic as uh I don't know, I use Visual Basic sorry, Visual Studio Code.

63:39Then I have tricks like uh open a terminal code

63:44Space dot enter and I open it my one I say oh my god this simple thing how can I explain that?

63:51Exactly

63:53Because when I try with other friends, they say, Oh, I need to install the the command shell that I do I don't remember when I installed it like ten years ago.

64:02Yeah, exactly.

64:03Yeah, you just forgot like things that just exist.

64:05I yeah, a hundred percent.

64:07So maybe I'll do that.

64:08Instead of um instead of just doing the challenge, maybe let me let me pledge to create a challenge for you at some point this year, right?

64:16So we're in

64:17February of twenty twenty four, it took us nearly two months to talk, so I have um ten months to get a challenge to you

64:25Thank you.

64:26No worries.

64:27I will do that.

64:27I'll do that.

64:28Hold me to account.

64:29I'll definitely send you a challenge.

64:30If you have me as well.

64:31Then if the challenge sucks, don't don't tell anyone.

64:34But yeah.

64:35Don't worry.

64:35Don't worry.

64:36People think that for us

64:38The the thumb the funny is that we always try to have like a complex one, the more like something that reflects everything that you know and it's the opposite.

64:48The challenge should be something simpler that everybody needs.

64:52And then from there get the oh now I I I understand the simple, then I can begin to grow.

64:59And that is the the main reason of the challenge is basically to everybody can learn.

65:04Then don't don't don't push too hard basically.

65:08I'll I'll I'll I'll come to you, don't worry.

65:11I have I have a I have an idea.

65:12Maybe um are you are you going to conference by any chance

65:15Yes, I am and by the way, I am going to speak also.

65:18It's my third mirror as a speaker.

65:20Okay, what what's your talk on?

65:23I have two conferences.

65:25One is about the data community and we are going to show a demo about VSQR data services or Hell SBI.

65:33And uh the second one is con with uh team uh sorry, um Will Wilson Will Sutton.

65:41Will Sunson, yeah, from the information.

65:43Yeah, yeah, yeah.

65:44Yeah.

65:44That we are going to to talk about AI and land change.

65:48That is another way to to connect with the with the you know internally they need a lot of layers to connect.

65:55Maybe you you heard the words rock or you know, I don't want to say too much.

66:00Yeah, don't give the talk away.

66:01But yeah, two talks.

66:02Two talks a conference.

66:04I will see you there.

66:04I'm gonna be a conference too this year, so um I look forward to meeting you in person.

66:09See you.

66:10I'm really happy to be there with you.

66:12Good, good.

66:12Well listen, thank you so much.

66:14Um thank you again for g giving your time to the community and and yeah, we'll speak soon.

66:20Thank you, Dean.

66:21Thank you.