Building custom charts for Tableau | Developing Extensions and capability in Tableau

0:00This is the second video that's part of a three-part series where I spent two hours talking to Tristan about Viz extensions and the Figmo to Tableau capability that he's building.

0:10In this video we talk about his journey to becoming a developer in the Tableau space, becoming a Tableau partner, and how he's built up his skills over the last decade.

0:19To be able to enable them to take advantage of the opportunity that Tableau is making available through the Tableau Developer Program.

0:26This is a long discussion.

0:27Be sure to check out the previous video as well if you haven't done so.

0:31Um and as ever, let's get stuck in.

0:34Tristan, how are you doing?

0:36Hello, hello.

0:37Everything good, thank you.

0:38I knew I'm good, I'm good.

0:40Um I I know you've been

0:42traveling the world a little bit, but you're finally back in the Netherlands.

0:44We finally have a chance to talk about some of the amazing stuff you're doing.

0:48Yeah, I think we have been trying a few times to plan this and it was always like either you or me

0:54available but uh yeah this this year it's a bit hectic in terms of where we are and but like I'm in my setup people who who have met me or so saw my video they they recognize the background I'm home uh good

1:07Yeah, no, it's important actually to have some some familiar face to have a good conversation 'cause I think you can kind of be out of sorts when you're um

1:15in a place you're not familiar with.

1:16And also sometimes you just want to come across sort of relaxed.

1:19And you know, personally, this is where I like to record and you're where like you like to record.

1:22So

1:23This is no doubt gonna be a great conversation.

1:25When I um when I reached out to you, I I've reached out to you so many times o over the years, but more recently it's it's been like dead focused on all the awesome stuff that you've been building with Jessica and your team.

1:37So

1:37I guess before we get into that, obviously that's what we're going to talk a lot about today.

1:42It'd be good for people to understand your journey.

1:44Like how did you get to where you are?

1:46Obviously, I think not many people know maybe about your I and Vis experience, but maybe you can

1:51Plot your journey from that to where you are today.

1:55So I I think even before Riz it's it's a bit interesting because

2:00Um there there is what I study, my master was um IT was engineering school, like uh really computer science, right?

2:10Right.

2:10So I learned to to code really since I'm 18.

2:14I started my my first like um uh post graduate, I don't know how you call it, like uh after what you

2:21When once you graduate high school.

2:24And then I started directly coding.

2:27And after some time it was like

2:30Once I graduated, I was like, okay, maybe coding is not what I want to do.

2:34I was not necessarily super into making websites or those kind of things.

2:39Right.

2:39Was not my main interest.

2:41But I really liked

2:43um everything around data and also usually what I try to explain is like really for me our job um data visualization is really

2:51The combination of like data, yeah, the IT kind of and design, right?

2:57And I always love the design aspect

2:59And I think for most people they they like really math, um like mathematics and and IT, but not necessarily design.

3:06Some people really like design, but not necessarily the technical part.

3:09And for me it's like I like a bit of everything

3:11And that's why I started working in data visualization, right?

3:15So I put coding aside, I was like, okay, that is not for me.

3:18I don't want to code anymore.

3:19Yeah and then I started working in a consulting company just making Tableau.

3:23So I discovered Tableau twenty fifth twenty fifteen.

3:26Nice.

3:26Then two years later I went to Riz.

3:29Still super focused on Tableau, like really just BI, right?

3:34Also a bit of data data um engineering, like altarists, those kind of things, but that was also not my thing.

3:40I was really data visualization.

3:44And yeah, after after the R and Vs, I started to work for another company like a startup where in that startup it was still really focused data Vs and Tableau, but I started to work with

3:55other engineers like other programmers that were using D3, JavaScript, and other tools.

4:02And I could start to see the limitation of Tableau.

4:04When say can you make this a rounded corner?

4:07No, I don't I cannot do rounded corners.

4:09Okay, can you make this a gradient?

4:11Uh no, I can like those kind of things, right?

4:13And he was feeling a bit of frustration.

4:16And I think it's really, yeah, after some some time I was like, okay, it's not that I don't want to work with Tableau anymore, but I want to to complete

4:26Or to yeah, add more more uh more skills, more knowledge, more tools to what I already know, right?

4:35And and not necessarily go in a different direction.

4:37but more complete what I am able to do.

4:40So I think at this point um I started to learn Figma for the more UI part.

4:46more the the programming like JavaScript to be able to code more and kind of build on top of Tableau and be okay Tableau is not everything I can try to add different breaks to make data visualization even better

5:00Mm-hmm.

5:00And then in two thousand and twenty um started working as a freelance like full time freelance.

5:06Right.

5:07Um for

5:09Two years where I was just doing tableau consulting for clients.

5:14And then again, that's where my I think my my early beginning kind of to started to come back and I started to

5:23code again product for the community.

5:26Initially it was just the advise, so that tool that a lot of people have used by now that allow you to make

5:33just advanced visualization for free and just have it in tableau.

5:37But it was completely uh just a fun project and I think that people enjoy it a lot.

5:43And then I say okay this is something that that worked that people like, maybe I can try to replicate that for other aspects of tableau that are more

5:52business focused so not so much table public but uh issue that people have when they they they need to create a dashboard for for their company and then make product out of it.

6:01And then since last year Jessica joined me, so now we are just a team of two, we are just two people.

6:07Um and we split our time between

6:10Um consulting, we still do consulting a bit.

6:15It's uh we develop our product, we build our product, and uh the third thing that we try to do is

6:21um kind of content uh and around that I mean tableau uh YouTube video right uh but also mostly currently a weekly newsletter so every week we send a uh an email um to

6:34Let people know what we have built.

6:36Yeah, it's good.

6:37I'm on it.

6:37I'm on it.

6:38I enjoy it.

6:39So that's the complete journey from 2015 to today.

6:43It's incredible.

6:44It's incredible.

6:45It's basically a decade summarized in like two minutes.

6:49But the the the the thing I want to highlight is the there's so many interesting things about that journey.

6:54Number one, um in 2014

6:56Many of the tools you use today didn't exist, right?

6:59So your journey sort of started and it met with these technologies as they were sort of coming about.

7:07And then the other thing I I think you you skirted over and that I think you it's probably uh because you're a humble person, but two years from starting Tableau to winning Ironvis, that's that's an incredible like timeline, right?

7:19So like

7:20Yeah, go for it, go for it.

7:22You would say that, but actually a lot of competitors, like even in the recent, I think more in the recent years than before.

7:30Very true, very true.

7:31known visionaries and master now recently it has been a lot of people who have been tab doing tableau for sometimes six months a year or two like it's much more and I think maybe it's because when you start you also have a bit of a more

7:45Blank page in your mind, and you'll be like, okay, I can be a bit more creative.

7:49I can try things that are not in the normal standard code.

7:53The visualization that I did to compete to the final, the one about the rainforest, yeah, it was

7:59When I saw saw it to some people at the beginning said that is too crazy, like people are not going to like it, is there is too many images, it's too confusing.

8:07And big because it was something that was it it was different, right?

8:12Yeah, exactly.

8:13So I think when you are early in your early stage of doing tableau or whatever tool, you are in that mindset of

8:22of not being afraid to break the rules, right?

8:26Exactly.

8:27And I think I I like even with other tools, every time that you learn a new tool, you really

8:34Create new connections in your brain and you are you are kind of thinking in a different way, right?

8:40And I think that's why also learning different different tools and trying to is not just good because you learn new skills, but it's also, huh?

8:48Now I can do this that way, and you're a bit less afraid of breaking things.

8:54That's kind of how I feel.

8:55It's true.

8:56And you're kind of you're benefiting from the momentum as well, right?

8:59There's a there's an energy and a passion and a momentum that kind of

9:02keeps you pushing and it's interesting because I think your journey also highlights that you've ridden that momentum, right?

9:09When you when you when you did Iron Viz

9:11you took on a new challenge.

9:12You just didn't sort of try and keep doing more of the same.

9:15You you were constantly looking for new ways of taking your skills a little bit further and

9:20you know, you you you passed across the the path of developers multiple times, but that knowledge came back to to to your advantage sort of more recently.

9:30And you brought all those things, that sort of journey you've been on has been kind of leading you to where you are today.

9:35You've brought all of those skills to the table now.

9:38And

9:38You brought your passion, your skills with ironvis, your design capability, understanding that people find some of the things that are really cool, difficult.

9:46Um, but then in a business context, actually these things can tell a story and you've found a way to kind of

9:52Bring that into the mindset.

9:53So that that's that's an incredible um journey.

9:56And I think it it it it links nicely to the next point, which is

10:00If we sort of focus in on Tableau, how much has Tableau done to sort of enable that journey, right?

10:06Because I think when we were learning Tableau, you know, going back to I don't know version six, seven, eight, whatever it was.

10:12A lot of the stuff today just wasn't possible.

10:15So could you talk a bit about how sort of Tableau has enabled, you know, what you're doing today and where you think that's going?

10:21We can have more of an open conversation about that first.

10:26I think initially it is more um Tableau's lack of something that was pushing me to build stuff, right?

10:35Right.

10:36And initially the the advice to create advanced visualization is because that was like there was no easy way to do it.

10:43You either needed to follow like a template with 10 steps and make

10:48A lot of calculation and densification.

10:50I'm like, no, I don't want to do that.

10:52I want to have a simple that you drag your you you put your data, you download, you have you have all the calculation done, right?

10:59So initially it was more because Tableau.

11:03was not having something.

11:06The same for the our tool that allowed to generate KPI.

11:10It was

11:10It annoys me so much when I need to make those KPI cards in Tableau because you have so many calculations to do.

11:16It's like, how can I fix that?

11:18But now it's true that I think, especially with the Viz extensions.

11:23And I don't know if um like I think it's also maybe a strategy of Tableau at this point to kind of

11:30Give more tools to developers and you can see the data dev side of Tableau is taking more importance.

11:37Yes.

11:37Like in in uh

11:38like the June 20 we will have the data dev day again so developers being able to talk about what they are they are doing and we see more and more API allowing people to build on top.

11:50Yeah and I think

11:51uh really the when we started to make those advanced visualization generator uh for free it was always kind of and we received this message a lot

12:02How can I use your tool in my in my dashboard for my company to have a Sun Kidd refresh and we you cannot because we don't have the tools to do that.

12:11And now with these extensions

12:13It's uh the the new IPI that that Tableau uh released, like re-released really soon.

12:19It allowed us to to make that connection that was missing between

12:25code and the data that you drag and wrap, right?

12:28Right.

12:28So I think it's um it's a bit of both, right?

12:32Is is always trying to build

12:34something that doesn't exist in Tableau.

12:36Yeah.

12:36And the more tools we have that allow us to build those things, the better.

12:40Yeah, exactly.

12:41It's an interesting journey.

12:42And I think if I step back and I just look at Tableau generally.

12:45I think they have been for the last maybe four or five years.

12:48And it starts really with Adam Solipsky, I think.

12:51You know, when he joined from AWS, I think he he maybe brought a bit of the thinking that we see in AWS, which is

12:57You take a product that you use internally, you package it, and you turn it into an API so that your customers can use it to develop their own tools and systems.

13:06And I think

13:07It's maybe a I don't know if Tabler was already on this path before he joined or if it's something that he accelerated, but fundamentally it's very clear that from that point onwards

13:17We started to see what I would say the groundwork for some of the thinking we're seeing today.

13:22So Tableau really taking itself seriously as a platform.

13:25And I know I know like if you go Google Tableau, ever the first thing that comes to people's mind is desktop, right?

13:31Ever when you see Tableau developer roles, what really people are talking about is Tableau Desktop.

13:35And I I i i i you know, I make videos about Tableau and it kind of hurts me a little bit because I I see this problem which is growing more and more, where Tableau desktop is becoming an increasingly smaller part of

13:49Of the bigger picture of what's possible.

13:51It's still the primary tool, it's still the primary vessel, but the platform now is so powerful, so big.

13:58There's so much more to Tableau than just desktop.

14:00Um so yeah, yeah.

14:02And and I think to to to your point there is that that feeling comes from the fact that there is a um this comp like uh like

14:13I I don't know the correct word to express that, but there is too much of a difference between how much tablet desktop is still used, and that is what people use, and how much

14:22communication and new features arrive to the platform.

14:25If you go to the recent TC, the number of times we actually talk about

14:31Tableau desktop capabilities for people to build things was really low, right?

14:36And we cannot expect that necessarily from a tableau from the main keynote, but still, right?

14:40And I'm being like this is still what people use every day and pulse and those kind of things are good addition for some people, but for the big majority of the people who are

14:55Tableau desktop is what I use every day.

14:57Like yeah, there is no one day I think that I don't open Tableau Desktop to make something, right?

15:02Exactly, exactly.

15:03And I think this is where the the new vision, the fourth wave as they like to call it from Tableau, I think this is secretly what this is trying to actually address, which is

15:12Let's decouple and no Tableau used this term decouple quite a few times over the last years as well.

15:16So I I sound like I I eat, sleep, drink, Tableau, but I'll use the term Tableau terminology.

15:22Let's decouple Tableau desktop from the Tableau experience, right?

15:26So

15:26This fourth wave is actually about taking the best of desktop, the best of prep, the best of uh data management and putting it into one experience by the looks of things, right?

15:36So that you just call it Tableau and everything you talk about is just Tableau.

15:41At the moment it's it's so many disparate products, but really fundamentally.

15:45People have an affinity with just one product.

15:47Um, and it also speaks to the other problem, which I'll also say now, which is the majority of the people who use Tableau.

15:54Don't use desktop, right?

15:56Which is kind of interesting, right?

15:57When you're consuming Tableau, when you're on your phone, when you're on your tablet, when you're just reading reports.

16:02That is the bigger body of users.

16:04So Tableau is in this sort of weird place where they're trying to address that audience, right?

16:08The people who consume data, they're trying to bring them into this sort of, let's say, nirvana that we've had as desktop and developers.

16:15But

16:16It's a difficult one because in order to do that, you do have to sort of turn your back a little bit to your heritage and say, look, okay

16:23I know developers, you know, you want all these great features, but we also now have to start sort of striking a balance.

16:30And that that I think has been the toughest thing for the community, broadly speaking.

16:34Because as we you and I know, there's so many things in that feature list that have been there for decades that we haven't gotten.

16:42So it's a really tough, tough balance to strike.

16:45Um but w I don't know what you think about that.

16:49Yeah I get I get your point of the like tableau from the people who are like

17:00Yes, you say a tableau user, but actually people who are going to the conference and people who are cheering for

17:07Things are not the majority of the tableau user, right?

17:11Of course, mostly are like viewers or even if uh I would say right now it's embedded into your website.

17:17And you will see a tableau, but you will see like a visualization that is a tableau visualization, but you don't necessarily need to know it, is not is not the point.

17:24So in that aspect, I think it's a good idea to be like, well

17:29There is a platform where people can make visualization or make analyti like visualization.

17:36I say visualization because that's my thing, but

17:39I think now Tableau is bigger than just visualization, right?

17:42Can we make analytical or can analyze their data or visualize it and then people can consume it?

17:48Yeah.

17:49But not necessarily they don't necessarily need to know that it's Tableau, the people who consume it, right?

17:54Yeah.

17:54So and I think in in that regard that

17:58For example, um, I'm also a bit in a Figma space and I can see the difference in in the different layers, right?

18:04And Figma is really we talk only to the people who are designing, right?

18:08The designers, yeah, and you can

18:11Not a feature.

18:12Exactly.

18:17Or if they have a point to say is like more about the collaboration, hey, change this, change.

18:22Yeah.

18:22Yeah, yeah.

18:22Yeah, exactly.

18:23This kind of thing.

18:24So it's it's a it's uh an easier I think approach when you you are you make a tool for creators

18:30compared to Tableau when it's a it's a global platform for analytical people, right?

18:35Most people will need to read, uh to consume, to create.

18:39to yeah, there is it's a bit more or to even data engineer now with Tableau Prep and everything.

18:44Yeah, yeah.

18:45Yeah, yeah, yeah.

18:46It's it's interesting because it is a challenge about focus and where do you choose to spend your time and um if you're 20 years old

18:53You can't ignore the past, but also the future's coming really quickly and you've got to pay attention to that that as well.

18:59So I I leave it to the product managers to

19:02To fix that problem.

19:02You and I can can chat all day we want.

19:04We don't have to solve the problem.

19:06So I guess that's good.

19:11I think

19:12Seeing that now there is more API and more tools for developers, external developers to build things is also a way for for I think them to be like, well, we cannot

19:22continue to have our hands in all of these things.

19:26Everybody like people people want more uh charts type for a very long time, right?

19:32Since I'm starting using Tableau, people say

19:35I should not have to make a dual axis with circles to make a donut shared, right?

19:41I should be have these kind of things.

19:43People have been saying that for a long time.

19:44So

19:45is also them acknowledging I think okay w we are not going to do it because Tableau's resource is now to

19:54or the area then pure visualization but if we allow devs external developers I mean to to build it

20:02then then that's good for for us also, right?

20:05Yeah, exactly, exactly.

20:06And it's it's a it's a it's a narrative that Tableau, I think, have

20:11Started in lots of different ways.

20:13We have things like the Tableau Exchange.

20:15We've had the data dev community was really the first part of that, right?

20:19The exchange is almost part two.

20:21Give the developers somewhere where they can share what they need.

20:24It feels like we're finishing Act Two and we're now about to start Act Three, where the tools the developers have built have a platform and now those tools are about to go out.

20:32to the community and the ecosystem is about to be sort of not finished, but it's about to have the first sort of moment.

20:41in 24.

20:422 through Viz extensions, but also some of the other things that we've been seeing over the years as well just culminating in where we are today.

20:49So um super exciting, really exciting.

20:52I guess it's now it's probably a good time now to to to come to sort of what you're doing.

20:57And before we do that, I think it's really important to sort of touch on something, which is

21:01In the last year and a half, every week I open my Twitter feed or LinkedIn feed, I see a chart not posted by you, but has been enabled by you.

21:11And it's been it's been absolutely incredible to see

21:14You've basically brought the the you know the hearts and minds of people who've been really frustrated with the design capabilities in Tableau, the ability to do things and tell stories that that uh you know they've wanted to tell for so long.

21:26And I think even your

21:29You add this uh thing as soon as you release that.

21:31I I saw 10-20 visits where people just quickly did something that they they wanted to do for a while, but just couldn't be bothered to look at, you know, not couldn't be bothered, couldn't be bothered as harsh, but the effort

21:41to to do that was not justified, right?

21:44It's not a and I'm part of these people.

21:46Like the the fun the funny thing is like I have never

21:50made uh visualization like an advanced visualization in the way of data densification, table calculation, like because like for me is it always sounded so

22:04So much work kind of to achieve something and knowing a bit of programming.

22:09Yeah.

22:09Like if you want to if you want to use these three to make a song kit is is

22:14It feels much more easier, right?

22:15Yeah.

22:16People are afraid of code usually.

22:18Like people see that and be like, oh, that's complicated.

22:20But I swear it's easier than having to go through all of the steps to make a Sunki and the

22:25these kind of things right so yeah for me it's like no i'm going to skip that part and directly try to to to make it and the the first visualization was uh the network diagram very first that i did in 2019 was a network

22:38And it was just like a network is even more simple because it's just circles and lines.

22:45Yes.

22:45Tableau can do circles and lines.

22:47It's just how do I calculate the position of the circles and the lines, right?

22:51Correct.

22:51So I use these three to calculate those position.

22:55And then say okay, now I have the X and the Y coordinates of everything.

22:59Tableau, please make put circles and put lines at those coordinates and it made uh

23:05Yeah, exactly.

23:05Yeah.

23:06It's interesting how you break that down as well because although you didn't do that identification and you essentially didn't go through the mathematics of making that happen.

23:15You kind of did it through another way.

23:16You did it through programming and you just took what you needed, which was the output, and then you just you you gave it to Tableau as is.

23:23And so

23:24I think this, you know, there are going to be people watching this who want to get into development or think development is a very big, you know, difficult thing.

23:31Actually, you know, your journey should act as an example to people that first you start by breaking down the problem.

23:37And then you take each of those parts and you apply it to something that you already know.

23:42So you don't have to go and rebuild VisQL or you know the render engine.

23:47You just need to understand how Tableau works.

23:50And dare I say with Chat GPT today, I mean people people can get very far.

23:56Even I've I've had crazy, crazy results building uh things that I just

24:01I don't think I could have built a year and a half ago had it not been for things like Chat GPT.

24:05So you can get very close to what you want.

24:08And then on top of that, you've got people like yourselves in the data dev community who you can get into a Slack, you can get into a meeting with.

24:14And uh you can ask those questions and even Tableau themselves put developers there.

24:18And before you know it, if you're just persistent, you can actually pull together something like add this, right?

24:24Which just lets people build something.

24:26And then once you've solved that problem, the next mountain isn't so big anymore.

24:30It's like you're already halfway up, right?

24:31And then you just keep going.

24:32And next thing you know

24:34Um you've got uh Lidata Viz uh Mark II or whatever.

24:38Yeah, it's it's it's really brick by like is that is the thing, this brick by brick.

24:42At the beginning the the the very

24:45First version of Advis was really just that was okay.

24:47If I put my data and I export it in a CSV, it does something.

24:51Okay, now what if I make a UI where people can put the data and then it returns the CSV

24:57Right?

24:57The the the calculated data.

25:00Yeah.

25:00And then I get well if I already have the calculated data, why do I not put it already in a

25:07pre like a pre-rendered kind of dash uh workbook yeah so when you click on download it doesn't give you the data but it gives you the workbook that has that data inside

25:18And then suddenly, okay, that works.

25:20Okay, now what if I make it a bit more more beautiful?

25:22What if I put this and that?

25:24So people see the result that we have right now and be like, wow, that is

25:29That is incredible.

25:30You have done a lot, but it's also like just years of weekly small incremental change, right?

25:36Every and I think that's that's what people say, no, like you you you over

25:43Yeah, you usually underestimate how much you can do in in a year or something like and that's completely true.

25:48It's like yeah on a weekly basis I feel that

25:51We our progress are really slow, like extremely slow.

25:55We should have been able to do much more than that.

25:58But then you look back from a year, two years ago, and you're like, okay, no, we have done a lot, right?

26:03So it's always that kind of difficult.

26:07Yeah.

26:07That that that phrase you said, I heard it for the first time in the context of Apple.

26:11Um the the developer Apple developer was saying that you tend to overestimate short-term progress and you underestimate long-term gains.

26:19And and it's it it just really hit me and it's like, yes, that that is exactly that is nearly always the way with these sort of great accomplishments you see out in, you know, on LinkedIn or whatever.

26:29People have been chipping away at these things for for for quite some time and I I think

26:34Again, I've I've had the privilege of watching your journey throughout the years.

26:37I think many people have maybe only discovered you in the last, you know, um two years.

26:41Uh data viz has probably only landed in people's inbox for the last uh year and a half, but

26:46It's really hard to forget that you've been on that journey for for quite some time.

26:50So if anyone is out there thinking, how do I start, I think you just just listen to Tristan, what he's doing now and

26:56Get started because you never know where we'll end up.

26:59And and I would what you you your point about ChatGPT it was completely true.

27:05We would not

27:06Have we will be maybe halfway without children at the at that time because yeah to make product online and to me there is so many small components and it's really hard to know everything.

27:17So usually that's why also we can only afford to be just two.

27:21Yeah.

27:21Because actually we are not a team of two, we are a team of three if you can't chat GPT, right?

27:25It is a two member of our team.

27:27Maybe five, yeah.

27:28Exactly.

27:29It counts maybe for for more than one more people, but like it is it's true that when you

27:35want to try a new API when we started to build the Figma plugin?

27:39It's like well it's a brand new world of the Figma.

27:42How do you start right and and then just really be able to have

27:48To have um a way to have answers to your question, but specific answer, right?

27:55Not not what you find on Google necessarily, but like hey, I have this specific

28:00code that I want to kind of try to to to build.

28:05Can you can you guide me through or tell me what is not working and I mean it's

28:11It's really, really helping us a lot.

28:13Good.

28:13Good.

28:14Yeah.

28:14Um yeah, people underestimate the power of those tools.

28:17I think, you know, you think it's a chatbot.

28:19I don't use it as a chatbot at all.

28:21I use it as a way of making my mind think.

28:23I use it as a

28:24troubleshooter, I I rarely use the the the answers or Google search like capabilities.

28:30That that's just sort of a different world.

28:31But anyway, look, we've we've talked a lot.

28:33I know people are