Build a Unique Data Viz Portofilio with Judit Bekker | Tableau Conversations

0:00Building a data analyze portfolio is a challenging task.

0:03Deciding where and how to showcase your work is even more challenging

0:07In my latest video, I spoke to Judith Becker.

0:10She walked me through her brand new portfolio that she just launched a month ago.

0:15It is absolutely beautiful

0:16And what we did in the hour that we had to speak to each other is we broke down the process that she went through to set it up, build it, how she wanted to make sure that her identity was conveyed through her work

0:28And some conscious decisions she took about Tableau Public, but also other platforms and how she curated what's on her current portfolio.

0:36We broke it all down and we talked a lot more than just Tableau.

0:39We also touched on Google Looker and some other technologies.

0:42And I just have to say the discussion with her was just really interesting and creative.

0:46She just had some really interesting ideas about

0:49approaching work and uh analytics in general so it's one of the most interesting discussions I've had in a while so go ahead and check it out and as ever get stuck in.

0:57Judith how are you doing?

0:59Oh good, thank you.

1:00It's good to be here.

1:02Yeah, we've we've fought some uh technical issues for the last ten minutes and we've also s been fighting diaries for the last uh couple of weeks as well.

1:10So I really appreciate you sort of joining joining me and um

1:14Uh yeah, being being able to talk a little bit about your work, your past and everything uh that we're gonna touch on today.

1:19Um I guess as an introduction, let's start with who are you, what do you do, and maybe we'll come on to Tableau in a bit.

1:27So over to you.

1:29Uh yeah, uh everything goes down to Tableau, I guess.

1:33Uh so yeah.

1:35Uh I currently work as a senior data analyst at a at a German startup uh that deals with uh painful taxation issues.

1:43uh here in the German uh bureaucracy and a couple of other countries.

1:49Uh and I've been doing this like it feels like forever.

1:53Um I've been in this startup scene for

1:56seven, six years now.

1:58Right.

1:58Um from mobile development to taxation.

2:02And um uh I'm mainly focused on steel

2:06Reporting.

2:07I wouldn't call it data visualization.

2:10Right.

2:10I don't think it is.

2:12We'll come back to that.

2:14Um mainly I'm a data analyst and I I I was always one.

2:18Like maybe I started out as a data analyst working in Excel and PPT.

2:24And it evolved from there.

2:26It's an evolution, right.

2:27And then in terms of like when did you discover Tableau?

2:31I always like to ask, what was your first version of Tableau?

2:35I don't remember the version number, but I do remember when it was.

2:41Uh it was in uh

2:442016.

2:462016.

2:47Well, I'll find the version, I'll put it on screen.

2:50Some point in 2016.

2:51So there would have been like a it would have been 2016.

2:54something, because back then they did use the years, right?

2:57So

2:57Um fairly recent, but yeah, like s that's quite nearly a decade, right?

3:02We're nearly nearly a decade into Usi tablet.

3:04That's pretty incredible.

3:07Yeah, and uh and it was incredible back then for me.

3:11Like uh I I was doing really

3:15amazing stuff in terms of work like I was working in the FMCG industry and uh analyzing biscuit opportunities like really really love brands uh on the market but I was struggling to

3:29Um to communicate these efficiently.

3:32So I was like uh it can be just excellent PPT.

3:36There must be

3:37be something out there uh and i started discovering uh tableau and sequel and uh power bi and infographics

3:45And uh I was a bit clueless, so I learned everything that was available available back then.

3:53But uh I think Tableau was my favorite and uh it remains so.

4:01Good, good.

4:03It's it's it's always interesting because I've I've worked in F uh fast moving consumer goods for anyone who's not familiar with the a acronym.

4:10It's uh it's an acronym we use a lot in the industry, right?

4:14Um that it I'll be honest, I share that passion with promotional analysis and all the stuff that goes on in there.

4:20That that that part of

4:22the analytics industry is super exciting to me because for me it's one of the few industries where you are you are measuring um

4:30Something tangible because you can go to the shop and actually see the thing that you're working on and pick it up off the shelf and be part of that.

4:38Everything else feels like so distant when you do analysis on it, right?

4:41Even like

4:42banking and finance.

4:43It it's you're you're analyzing someone else's products, but when it's you know, biscuits or you know, food or stuff that you buy, personal care brands

4:50It's just so different and you you get really passionate about it, right?

4:54Yep.

4:55Exactly.

4:56And it and it's a super um

4:58I think you learn a lot about the way uh not just brands work, but I think you learn a lot a lot about the way companies work and how they handle brands.

5:05Because I think sometimes we have this um

5:08I'll call it fairy tale understanding of brands that people just love them and therefore they just, you know, buy these stuff.

5:13But when you work inside of the company and you see the mechanics and the tricks and the all the sort of devices they use to sort of

5:21Not not manage behavior, but to get you to do something like buy more products or spend more money, you start to have a different sort of perspective on what a brand is, right?

5:31Yeah.

5:32But it's it's a it's a it's a good it's a good segue to I think talking about uh your work.

5:39Um

5:40You've been using Tableau for some time and I think before we get into sort of your portfolio and building your portfolio, which which I think is like the reason I wanted to talk to you.

5:49How have you found Learning Tableau over those years?

5:52Was it something that you could, you know, very easily pick up, or was it something where there was a moment where something sparked and you suddenly understood the product a lot more?

6:02So I think uh Tableau has a really, really steep uh learning curve.

6:06Uh it's really easy to uh get a sufficient amount of knowledge in a short amount of time.

6:13But then it gets uh a bit harder and uh I don't think I've uh reached a level of uh I don't know the floor leach twins uh or of like Yeah

6:24And and uh maybe I don't even want to like uh I I know how to uh solve problems, I know how to search for them.

6:32What I I I think that's that's the the key to

6:36Mastering Tableau is to know the search terms uh you need to search for.

6:42Yeah, no, you know, I have the I have this discussion with um Tableau product developers.

6:47The the simple thing I tell them is how does someone know

6:51to search for level of detail calculations.

6:54It's not a word you've ever used.

6:56Like the product doesn't tell you that that's what you need.

7:00But you're sat there trying to build this table in Tableau and you're using filters to kind of get the answer.

7:06Then you add something else and the filters don't work.

7:08And then you're like, oh, maybe you start messing around with context filters, but whatever.

7:12But really, the product needs to tell you it looks like you need a level of detail calculation.

7:18And it's not until you go to Ken's blog and you start reading about this example, you go to the forums and then the one word, uh level of detail calcul.

7:26You're like, oh, I've never heard of that.

7:28And you Google it.

7:29Three weeks later, you finally understand it.

7:32But by then, you know, you need to do your job right.

7:34So it's a very hard problem to solve.

7:36Yeah, I I wish like I I was working with a lot of BI tools uh and I just wish they would use the same words for the same things like can it be window calculations uh everywhere or like

7:50Yeah.

7:51Yeah.

7:52It's very true.

7:53Um Tableau takes its terminology partly from the database world, but I also know that

8:01In more recent years, the way they call their features is very confusing.

8:06So for example, the term extensions

8:09Is used in so many different contexts where you have Viz extensions, dashboard extensions, analytic extensions, uh table extensions, right?

8:18And in a previous podcast, I talked to Ravi, and he didn't know

8:22what a table extension was.

8:24And he thought it was something that made tables more interesting to use inside of the product, like visually.

8:31And it in actual fact it wasn't.

8:32It's something completely different.

8:33It's to do with the way you connect to the data and you're able to run specific types of queries on on the table, right?

8:38And it was it was super interesting.

8:41to to hear that.

8:41And I think you've touched on you've touched on an absolutely sort of salient point, which is if you're using let's say Power BI, Excel, or whatever, they all have subtly different naming for the same function or subtly different

8:55connotations for the same capability.

8:57Yeah, but even for like uh really basic things like in Tableau you make a view

9:03In Lucre you make a look.

9:05In metabase you create a question.

9:08Yeah.

9:08And it's really, really

9:10Like disturbing to to to know these words and like use the wrong ones and you know it should be that like it should be a chart or a view or like a tab

9:22But it's a question or a look.

9:25I I have not had to use look at too much.

9:28I've come across it in my sort of consulting world and I've I've tried desperately.

9:32I don't know if you ever get this where

9:34I've I mean I'll be honest, I'll put my hand up.

9:36I do this with Power BI as well, where I have to do something with a tool, but the way I approach it is I want to know as little as I can possibly know

9:46Because I don't want to get drawn into that world, right?

9:49I just want to, I'm good at Tableau.

9:52I'm happy with Tableau.

9:54I've seen Power B.

9:55I've seen Lacan.

9:56I think, ah, this is breaking my brain.

9:57So I'm just gonna

9:58I'm just gonna do as little as I can and just like stop right there.

10:03Uh yeah, uh that would be uh my take as well, but sometimes I can't do it.

10:09Like uh for example

10:11Currently I'm working in Lucre and since I'm working with Lucre I learned to really, really appreciate Tableau

10:20Right.

10:21More than ever, I guess.

10:23So what I think uh the biggest challenge for me is that I always work with tools that

10:29I felt like uh I am the limit and not the tool.

10:34Uh and now I am hitting walls every day.

10:38Like I have these great ideas, I will make it work.

10:41That would look good.

10:42And no.

10:43You can do it.

10:44It's not possible.

10:46Okay.

10:46And I think that's I don't want to sound like a Tableau fanboy, but that is genuinely

10:53something that Tableau is actually recognized for.

10:55Even Power BI's users will say that Tableau has more finesse around design and control.

11:02I also on YouTube criticize a lot about Tableau's design and control.

11:07In fact, my last video was about how annoying design and formatting is.

11:13So on one hand, here I am saying, yes, Tableau's great.

11:16But I think we have very high standards, really high creative standards because of some of the things we've seen people do with Tableau

11:24And because someone has achieved that, I'd like to think you're part of that narrative as well.

11:28Like you've achieved some really beautiful work with Tableau, and everyone wants that beauty to be easier to attain, right?

11:35And so that that has raised the the standard of sort of what we expect, which then means when you go to look in you can't even get close to that, you find it super frustrating.

11:44Right.

11:44Yeah.

11:44So

11:47I guess that gives context to that.

11:49Um but yeah, go going going back to, you know, mm maybe just briefly touching on the other tools you use and then we'll go into like your work and and and the portfolio.

11:59In your in your sort of view, you're obviously having to use lots of different tools.

12:04How do you see the landscape evolving around tools?

12:07Because there is there is this, I'm gonna call it sentiment that

12:10you know, Tableau's dying.

12:12That's a very extreme version.

12:13But there is this sentiment that people are moving away from Tableau.

12:16Maybe that's a fairer thing to say for lots of good reasons.

12:19Sometimes it's price.

12:20Sometimes a company is more connected to the Microsoft architecture, so they want something that's, you know, more closer to that.

12:27Sometimes tools like Google Looker, although their visualization tools aren't as good

12:31They do have some other capabilities that are very good compared to what Tableau has with Salesforce.

12:37So I I'd love to get your read and you know what you've seen.

12:40I I'm not asking you to sort of

12:42be uh profit just sort of saying how do you see things sort of in your world and how how how how does that impact the way you think about the film?

12:49Yeah.

12:49I I I think it's a really good question.

12:51Uh like uh when I started with Tableau, uh

12:56Like there was only a a handful of people uh working in this, like even i in Hungary, like we were like really a handful.

13:04Yeah.

13:05And there was a huge demand on the market for for Tableau people.

13:10There were positions on LinkedIn popping up every day a couple of years ago that uh companies are looking for data visualization.

13:19designers, not like data visualization developers, designers.

13:24And uh money was just pouring into this industry and I think it changed drastically.

13:32So what I see now is uh no data visualization expert uh positions here at least.

13:41I see data analysts focused on reporting, but everyone should do like more than uh a BI developer uh would do.

13:51And uh it's not like people are looking for uh tableau developers.

13:57Uh you get what you get.

13:58Uh I think uh

14:02You have to use uh get used to it.

14:04Yeah, people are more agnostic, right?

14:07So because companies don't want to be wedded to particular platforms, yeah, they're saying uh no

14:21They kind of bung everything in.

14:23The reality is if you if you're good at all five of those, you're not good at any one, right?

14:27Like like you're you're kind of a generalist at all of them and so

14:31Um there are a lot of enterprising individuals though who are point out who are, like you say, very good at finding the answers.

14:38And so that's the approach.

14:39That's actually the fastest way to learn.

14:40It's not by

14:41not necessarily going on a course and you know doing all these certifications.

14:45It's actually when you get into business and you do the things that people ask you to do, those are always very weird things to do.

14:50They're not they're not superstore sales, they're not like clean data sets.

14:54They're messy.

14:54Yeah.

14:55And I I'd also think just to add to what you said, there is a the skills are moving further back in the stack.

15:01So whereas a lot of the effort used to be focused on the visualization

15:05Now I think you're seeing more and more skills focused on modeling in those platforms.

15:10So it's not just that you're a data analyst or whatever.

15:13I think you're having to use more SQL, you're having to use more Python, you're having to potentially become

15:17A little bit of a data engineer or a data architect in order to support the reporting.

15:22That's a standard expectation.

15:23Yeah.

15:24Even like uh these new positions coming up, like uh okay, we don't really have data visualization expect

15:32But like the number of analytics engineers uh companies are hiring, uh like it's it's booming, I think.

15:40That's that's the thing now

15:42I will I will push back on analytics engineering in general and I know I'm gonna get a lot of critique for saying this, but the the thing I've always found is that

15:53Analysts engineers are extremely good at building models, extremely good at building architectures, let's say.

15:59They're very good at building the pipelines.

16:02But when it comes to interacting with business, and I go back to fast moving consumer goods, you know this ecosystem very well, so we can talk about this.

16:10The data and the things that people do in business are never as clean as the architectures and the pipelines that you design.

16:18So there then always ends up being a need to do some what I call last mile data work.

16:25Like that means creating aggregations in Tableau.

16:27Creating some really obscure lookup function inside a tableau.

16:31And the thing I always get back from data engineers is no no no no no

16:35Don't do it in Tableau.

16:36Um, you should let me know what that is and let's push it back into the data model.

16:40And I'll say, okay, cool.

16:41How how long does that take?

16:43Yeah, give me two weeks

16:44Uh no, sorry, the promotion's finished in two weeks, right?

16:47Like, you know.

16:48The promotion's done in two weeks.

16:50I need the answer now, right?

16:52And so uh I've heard someone in Tableau describe it as communism for data sources, right?

16:57That's sort of the data engineering approach, which is like

17:00Let's let let's just create everything for everyone and do it centrally.

17:03But sometimes it doesn't reflect the reality of how fast some things go in businesses.

17:09And I I I don't disagree with that philosophy of moving as much as you

17:13You can further back, it improves performance, it can improve the way things work.

17:16And that data is more visible to other architectures and systems within the business if it's in the database, right?

17:22It's not just in Tableau.

17:24But when you're building

17:26End user functionality where people need to answer questions quickly.

17:30There are just some things you can't do easily, quickly.

17:34And Tableau gives you those tools, and Power BI and these tools give you the ability to just solve that problem.

17:39So

17:40Anyway, that's my two cents.

17:41I can't wait for the comments to to light up.

17:46So anyway, um let's go let's talk about your your your work then because you know I saw your you did a you did a website redesign, right?

17:54And

17:55I was uh I was blown away because I felt like I do have familiarity with your work, if that makes sense.

18:02And I felt like I've seen your visualizations in multiple times.

18:05And I'm I always spend time looking at beautiful visualizations.

18:09The context of this is I s I lost a bit of passion for design and tableau about five years ago because I just felt like it's making me work so hard.

18:18to get there.

18:19And I'm a design like really centric person.

18:22I've always had a passion for design.

18:24I edit videos, I make content, like of course I'm into design, but

18:28I lost that passion in Tableau.

18:29So I've lived through other people, people like yourself.

18:32I look sometimes at Ellen Blackburn.

18:34I look at individuals like you know Tristan and some of the stuff he's done in the past.

18:38So many, so many uh incredible people.

18:42And what I was amazed by with your portfolio is you managed to show me a new side of your work that I I don't feel like I'd seen because you'd created it in a really nice, sort of presentable way.

18:52So

18:52The first question I I sort of wanted to ask you about the website is what what prompted you to sort of build a new website and like how did you go through the process of

19:02deciding what aspects of your work it would show people.

19:06Mm-hmm.

19:07Um so I I I had a website since uh

19:122017, I guess, but it was like an old WordPress uh website.

19:17It was okay, uh, but it was like mainly a blog and yeah

19:22Back then, like I was trying out Power BI, Illustrator, Flourish Tableau, and there was no way to have everything at the same place

19:34And I was still a junior, so I wanted to like showcase somehow my portfolio.

19:39So what I did is like I wrote a

19:42blog post I posted a picture of uh what I did in like whatever a tableau or power bi and like two sentences like hey

19:51This is what I did last week.

19:53Here's the picture and the interactive link to that.

19:56Right.

19:57And I just didn't want to delete these.

20:01Uh I'm not ashamed of this, but I wanted to make it a bit more uh professional um in terms of how it looks.

20:10how easy it is to maintain and like move away from like uh everything as a blog post and only keep those that

20:20would worth keeping and focus on uh like really a portfolio um to showcase my work.

20:29I I don't wanna be a freelancer or or anything.

20:32Um I'm I'm good being an employee.

20:35But it's really, really much much easier to to get a job when you can like say that, hey, here's a link, this is my portfolio, and then

20:47Like maybe you don't have to do like uh hundredth uh tableau dashboard for an interview because

20:56You've done a bit of work already, right?

20:58Yeah.

20:59Yeah, and it's it's interesting you say that because I I think Tableau would say, oh, but we have Tableau Public, right?

21:05And Tableau Public does kind of give you an opportunity to

21:09to put all your work.

21:10And and so is there is there something that Tableau Public wasn't giving you as a as a way of showcasing stuff that your website does?

21:19Yeah, uh definitely.

21:21Uh and I I know something has just came out about reorganizing all the things, but um

21:30Like I I wanted to organize my things better.

21:34Like maybe don't put the latest work uh on the top, uh maybe the ones I'm most proud of or or uh what

21:44like uh ghost together or like a series of work.

21:49I did some sort of things.

21:51And how I did it before is that I edited the viz

21:57And then I saved it again.

21:59And this is how I could change the order of my tableau visits.

22:05Wow.

22:05So you uh yeah, I made a list on which ones should I

22:12Edit and save first in order to get the right order.

22:17So that's blown my mind because I'm just like

22:22Wait a minute.

22:22Yes, that is exactly how you do it.

22:25But then it it kind of highlights the importance of of what you've just said, which is

22:30It's kind of partly first impressions.

22:32And someone's browsing a portfolio, the thing that hits them first is you want it to be your best work.

22:38So it makes total sense.

22:39Your most recent work is not always necessarily your your your best work because

22:45The point of public is you're trying different things, right?

22:47So you could have tried something and you weren't happy with it, but the like the thing you want to go to an interview with is from a year ago and it's still some of the best work.

22:55I like to think some of my best work was in my first four or five years with Tableau, right?

23:00Like today the stuff I do with Tableau is very, let's say, consultant driven, like very clinical, very

23:05Like, is it supportable, maintainable?

23:07Like can I document it?

23:09Very boring things, not very sort of interesting for perfection, but yeah, it's uh man.

23:14Yeah, basically.

23:17What you want other peoples to see from you at first?

23:20Like for example, if I would sort my visas in terms of like popularity.

23:26My number one dashboard would be a chart navigator, which is like I did it for Virg and then I figured okay I I will just upload it because it's like done

23:39But that's not me.

23:40Uh that was like an opportunity to take and people like it, but it's not me

23:46Yeah.

23:47Yeah, no, that's a very fair point.

23:48Like what other people um you know, what other people know you for, what people sort of choose to look at them m most for, isn't exactly a representation of

23:58Um not necessarily just you, but it's also like the the work you do and the work you represent, right?

24:03Like you're not a chart selector.

24:06You you work you've worked in so many more interesting industries and

24:10you have a more sort of richer story around your work as well, which I I think is super, super cool.

24:15So um the other thing I I was going to ask then is like I know looking at your Tableau public and then looking at your web portfolio

24:24There is a difference in the amount of stuff that you've shown.

24:26And I think maybe it speaks a bit to what you've just said, which is what do you want to put best forward?

24:31But how do you how did you decide which visualizations made the cut for your website versus which ones um

24:37You know, we're gonna just stay on Tableau Public.

24:39And and I also get the impression that everything that's on Tableau Public, you've also maybe curated that as well.

24:46Uh so two questions there.

24:48I'll let you sort of answer that.

24:51Um I think I chose the voices that that are are closest uh to me and uh

24:59That can be like because of multiple reasons.

25:01Like number one, because I like the topic.

25:04I tend to choose really, really niche topics, but then I spend so much time on it that

25:11Like I just cannot not love them.

25:15Yeah, exactly.

25:16Yeah.

25:17And uh then there are some that I I'm proud of because of how complex

25:23uh it was to build them and there are some cases in there that I like I built in like four hours and I think it was a a nice design.

25:33I just had an idea and I think it was unique and I managed to pull it off, but it required like what half a day of work.

25:40Yeah.

25:40Uh and there were others that I've worked on for months.

25:44Yeah.

25:44So that is the story, right?

25:46Like unfortunately you don't

25:47You don't see that when people publish these visits.

25:50Some of them are laborers of love.

25:52They are ideas you've had for a long time, ideas you've had for a short time.

25:56But maybe a feature's just come out that makes them easy to do.

25:59Yeah, right.

26:00Uh or you tried it once, it didn't work.

26:02You tried it again, it did better, but then someone like Ken has posted something

26:06that shows you how to do something you're like, that's the piece I was missing.

26:10I need that.

26:10And then you bring it in.

26:12Now the Viz is ready to go.

26:13It's like art, right?

26:15Like everyone has a piece that

26:18Isn't ready or need to re me needs finishing or something like that.

26:22Yeah.

26:22And I I also think that like uh

26:25I I had to create uh a a curated version of my portfolio because I I I I made a lot of stuff over the years like

26:35I I uh collected all my visits that I made over the past I don't know how many years and it's more than a hundred and not

26:44All all of them are good and uh like people I think would get overwhelmed uh if I would select like uh 70 of that hundred.

26:54So

26:55I wanted to uh showcase a wide range of things I could do, uh, but still make it a bit compact.

27:04Good.

27:04I am I am um for your context because you're probably looking at me going, why is he not like uh looking at the camera?

27:12I am moving you to a second screen so that I can

27:17screen share with you and also look at look at the screen at the same time.

27:21Um so I I'm conscious when you do these interviews it's not always obvious what someone's looking at.

27:26So let me

27:27What I'm gonna do is I'm gonna share my screen and I'm gonna just bring up your website and then we can talk a bit about it.

27:31And then I think it'll be I think it's just uh like the reason I wanted to do this is because I think you nailed the balance between

27:40Putting your best foot forward, expressing who you are as an individual, and then giving people a way to engage with your work, whether it's social, reaching out to you, or

27:52using the visualizations and getting to know them a bit better, right?

27:56And too often I think the solution that people have is, oh, I need to express my work.

28:01Let me start a blog.

28:02Let me let me let me go through these sort of very mechanical things.

28:06But everyone does that and there's no sort of personality, there's no individuality to it.

28:10And I think you've expressed that really, really well.

28:12So um let me um let me share the screen and then we can you can guide me through your website as it were.

28:19So um

28:19You could be uh a tour guide, as it were.

28:22Uh hold on.

28:23Let's see if it will let me even do this.

28:25There, this is your website.

28:27I I love it.

28:27Um number one, I love the illustration.

28:29Did you do that or did you get

28:31Did you get someone to do that?

28:36Okay.

28:37I I was thinking about like I don't have any good pictures.

28:41I don't want my picture taken, but I still like it to look

28:46Really, really homebrand with the colors and any picture I would use here would ruin uh what I want.

28:53And I was like

28:55I I went on Etsy and I saw this girl doing uh portraits based on pictures for

29:0315 euros.

29:04And I was like, okay, I'm gonna spend these 15 euros like what?

29:10That's that's like a meal for lunch.

29:12It's like coffee in London, yeah

29:15Yeah, and see what comes out of it and uh just don't get my expectations high.

29:22Uh and

29:23This cost uh 15 euros.

29:26So that's remarkable.

29:28That's so good.

29:29That is so good.

29:30That is so good.

29:31And it's better than something that AI would do as well, because AI has this like really

29:36weird habit of of of um of just there's there's something subtle about it that isn't quite right, right?

29:42And you know, I've I've I was in a real hype train with AI and now I've sort of completely fallen off a cliff with it.

29:47I'm not a

29:48Not a huge fan of some of the AI creations that are happening and it I'm partly to blame because I think when AI came out I was also quite excited about it in the context of Tableau.

29:57And now that it's here and Tableau doing stuff with it, kind of like uh anyway

30:02It's a really good thing you did there because you kind of invested a little bit in that first impression as well, right?

30:09Like and it need it it matches the brand, it matches the colours.

30:12I guess that was easy for the the the creator to do.

30:15Um but it's also you, it's very clearly you.

30:17It's not like some sort of um you know fake image or something like that, which is great

30:23Um yeah, so this is still like a solution that I I I didn't build by hand.

30:30Uh so I just uh migrated uh my content and

30:35Uh to be honest, it was it it was a couple of minutes and everything, all my blog posts were there in some sort of format.

30:44Um so I could have

30:46capturer all of them and uh then just uh make a couple of edits.

30:51Um I just decided to delete everything and not do that.

30:55Uh because I I I wanted to to make it more organized because I was just throwing pictures uh into one folder and there were pictures I uploaded uh five times and I didn't uh know which

31:08one of those five I really used.

31:11So I I wanted to get a bit more organized, more organized behind the scenes

31:17Um so yeah, so what I wanted to do is like have a short introduction and then a portfolio section uh uh under that.

31:28And uh if uh if I hover over uh the little pictures, there's a small description uh in the portfolio section uh about uh

31:40The visits themselves and you can open it.

31:43I wanted to uh embed the interactive versions uh but I didn't succeed.

31:51I was like, okay, maybe I will figure it out.

31:54Um in a couple of months uh until then it's good.

31:57And all of them has like this small portfolio page, uh, which I think is nice with all the links to the data sources and uh the interactive versions uh

32:09when I have those the blog posts um and then basically like all the pictures uh that

32:18are connected to to this project that I that I uploaded.

32:22So I think it's a it's a really nice uh way

32:25uh to visualize uh uh a portfolio i still have challenges because uh it's not super flexible to edit this uh section but uh

32:37But it's still a a really, really nice one compared to to what I used before.

32:43So I think there's a lot of thought that has gone into even just this because it it it's

32:51The thing you the thing you say is actually quite important.

32:56Like getting a visualization to sit on a web page nicely is actually quite hard.

33:00Um it's not easy because you design the visualization to match the proportions that work.

33:05for it.

33:07And then when you come to a web page, you've got this like sixteen by nine, right?

33:12And then really you don't use all of it.

33:14You just have this sort of central column that you have to use.

33:17And

33:17that is typically only like 60% of the screen real estate.

33:20So you you have this really tough challenge of, well, I could just let people look at the visualization, but also this is not the best place to do that.

33:30And so what I like you've done is that you've pulled out what is worth communicating about that visualization, right?

33:36Because at the end of the day, someone who's looking at this and, you know, looking at this as your portfolio is just really interested in

33:42the visualization, how it came to be, the data, and sort of what you want to communicate about the visualization that makes it a good piece of work.

33:51If they want to go look at the work, I think as you've done here, you can go click on it and you can link it.

33:55But you don't

33:56You don't always need to actually have the visualization on your portfolio.

34:02You can just pull out the things that are good about it.

34:05And I think that's what you've done here nicely.

34:07You've taken this map.

34:08you sort of pulled out the individual pieces, you've given people those, you know, large capabilities.

34:15And the great thing about this is it works 100% of the time.

34:18Tableau Public doesn't always work 100% of the time on your phone or something else, right?

34:23These images scale very nicely as well.

34:25Um and yeah, you've you've treat you've treated it more as a gallery rather than like as this sort of um

34:32you know, uh embedding use case, right?

34:34Which is kind of what it would be if you were embedding the visualizations.

34:38It would become like a an embedding I personally I'd call it an embedding nightmare because

34:43uh embedding visualizations is just not a consistent experience across all browsers, across all things.

34:49Images are, yeah.

34:51What I was really surprised to see is like uh and when it comes to my design as well, so I never design for mobile

34:59And I remember that whenever I uh upload anything to Tableau Public, I needed to turn off the mobile, yeah.

35:07The mobile because everything would like look really, really awkward.

35:12And uh in my previous uh blog I didn't see statistics about uh how many people open my website from a mobile device, but now I do

35:24And I was surprised to see that it's like more than forty percent.

35:29Yeah.

35:29Like it's it's really a lot

35:32Yeah, no, it is, it is.

35:33And mobile devices also include things like tablets as well.

35:36So I'd probably say of that forty percent, ninety percent is like a phone, ten percent like ten percent of that forty percent is like a a thing.

35:44So

35:45It is it is super interesting.

35:47I have had this theory for quite some time.

35:50You know on Twitter and on LinkedIn when someone shares

35:54a link to visualization.

35:56I've had this theory for a long time that when you see the reactions, you can't see reactions much anymore on on X.

36:02But back in the day you'd see these like Twitter posts with like 300 likes

36:07And I would look I would look at my own statistics and I'd be like, wait a minute, like 300 people have liked this, but only ten have actually clicked the link.

36:17Like, what is going on here, right?

36:20And then

36:20Of all those ten people on their own mobile, they'd go through uh and you'd see that.

36:25And then, you know, you've got a blog now, you you see the analytics.

36:28Uh, when I make videos, I see the analytics there.

36:32Like yeah, forty to fifty percent of the way people interact with stuff is through mobile.

36:37So this solution, like if I clicked on this in mobile, um

36:42This this solution you have works because you've not tried to do this thing where you've gone for like

36:50the additional hard work of also designing your dashboards for uh mobile, which if I'm honest, some of the layouts you have in your visualizations would never work on mobile.

37:00It's just it's a completely different

37:03format.

37:04They were not designed for that format.

37:05These are um not to sort of speak on your behalf here, but a lot a lot the way I think of a lot of your work is they are posters.

37:12Right?

37:12They are big things.

37:14They're they're supposed to have space, not be confined to something small.

37:19Yeah, maybe one day I will configure something just for mobile, but uh I I I

37:26don't have it in the books yet.

37:29Yeah, in the future.

37:30In the future.

37:31I think Tableau could make it easier for for example.

37:33And the simplest way they could make it easier is by changing the layout system in Tableau

37:38So you could have what you have in web design, which are breakpoints, right?

37:42So in web design you have breakpoints, which means when it sees a screen that's too small.

37:46the content just flows.

37:47I think even with this web page, if I was to sort of come out of this full screen and I was just to, you know, start doing this um and then refresh the page.

37:57Uh oh no, because I'm zoomed in.

37:59I'm zoomed in.

38:01Sorry.

38:01I'm zoomed in, so that's not gonna work.

38:04But what I mean is if I loaded this on the mobile

38:06mobile device, the breakpoint for the device when I load the screen would tell it to go, oh, I'm narrow and it would naturally flow.

38:14That doesn't happen with Tableau content.

38:15There's yeah, there's even a separate like mobile layout that I designed.

38:20uh for for this website but yeah it has like a minimum weight uh width uh when it switches to to the mobile view.

38:28So yeah.

38:29So I really like this and the the I I think I think is this this um

38:37I think this piece over here, this Fire Walk With Me, is is also featured on your Tableau public profile.

38:43And I guess what I was going to ask you is

38:46Uh on your tablet pub a public profile, did you use any of the data that you get there about like what people are looking at, what people have starred to inform sort of what you put here?

38:57Uh no.

38:59Um I mean I I I care but at the same time I I don't.

39:06Uh good.

39:07Alright.

39:09It's it's good.

39:09You have you have a

39:11You you have an opinion about what matters for your portfolio, which is which is rare, because a lot of people would just default to that, you know, most viewed, most popular.

39:20Whatever.

39:21I think that I make the mistake of doing that all the time, Samia.

39:24No, for me it's like uh what I like uh the best or

39:28Like uh maybe that was that famous composer's uh piece that I don't like that much, but it was so nice that it's so long.

39:35I never did a long whist, so I was like, okay, I'm putting it here

39:39Uh you gave it the space.

39:41Uh it's good.

39:42I think it works for the format because uh pianos are very wide things, right?

39:47And then you've got this

39:49nice contrast with a very long visualization.

39:51So it I think it works.

39:53Uh it's really good.

39:55I do love I do love I just do love how like you've um you've sort of put things together.

40:00I I spent about fifteen minutes just

40:03kind of really engaging with with the website and kind of I think there's a story in each of these that you can take to and you can kind of go and explore and

40:12Again, if you go if you go to the interactive version, of course you go to Tableau Public.

40:16But then I think here, and I think this sort of exemplifies the problem, my Tableau Public is zoomed in beyond 100%

40:23Tableau Public has this problem where it tries to contain the visualization a little bit.

40:29What would be nice, I think, for Tableau to consider is if there was a way to share to the full screen experience

40:36But from your blog.

40:37So that if you clicked on the image, it just immediately opened this, right?

40:41Because this this I can interact with, right?

40:44This is a visualization I can use.

40:46And then I think it's a little bit better than, you know, landing on this page where you have this Salesforce banner number one.

40:53Not everyone wants a Salesforce banner on their work.

40:56I think it's possible.

40:57Like uh you just have to uh you just have to edit uh the link itself.

41:07Oh yeah, you there's a URL parameter, isn't there?

41:09So like um No, it's not about bothering.

41:11I think it's uh what I'm saying is it should be a default, right?

41:15Like you should just when you go to share

41:17Here.

41:17It's not here, right?

41:18So you can't like this is the embed code, this is the link.

41:22It should have an option here which is link directly to full-screened experience.

41:27That's all it is, right?

41:28Because who who's gonna who's gonna like

41:30Who's gonna Google the URL parameter encoding for Tableau Public Links?

41:37I don't think anyone even thinks that

41:39to Google that I haven't.

41:40Um I know it exists for Tableau Server.

41:42So this this information here, so origin viz equals share link, count equals no, just um all of this stuff is what you can edit.

41:51Language is English, okay.

41:53Great.

41:53Um there's lots of lots of weird information in that URL.

41:58I think uh there was a time when like uh I was like

42:02Why can't Tableau have like uh more font types or why can it do this or that?

42:08But uh like uh uh

42:12The more I I I work in report and basically Tableau is a reporting tool.

42:17Like that's the primary function, not that like uh I don't know

42:22uh what we are doing on tableau public like uh this mental masturbation stuff and uh and like

42:31It it it's I feel like it's so nice uh that there are so many options in Tableau.

42:39There are a lot of competitors on the market where you can even try out that tool.

42:45So how can you just gain experience?

42:47There's no looker public.

42:50Um so I think I

42:52I I still have a couple of things that I don't understand from my perspective.

42:57It would be so easy to do.

42:59Like it's such a minor thing and it would have such a big effect.

43:03But then I don't know.

43:04I think uh after all these years I just uh learned to be grateful for the things that they beat you into submission with uh with the with the uh features, right?

43:16Um

43:17No, I I don't think it's unreasonable at all.

43:19Like, you know, fonts, they are bringing it in the next version, right?

43:22So they're bringing I think what

43:25Y what you said is very funny.

43:26Like it'd be very small and inconse consequential thing to do.

43:29They're bringing Google fonts to I think the next version, that's what they announced at the conference.

43:34But it's not all the fonts.

43:36It's sixteen.

43:37And I'm like

43:38Why 16?

43:39Like why only 16?

43:41Why not all of them?

43:42Like who chose those 16 fonts?

43:46Why, like

43:47If you're gonna bring 16, let me choose which 16 fonts I want to use, right?

43:52Like it's very um

43:55Ah, there's a little bit of I don't know, there's something there.

43:58There's obviously a technical limit.

43:59There's a technical barrier and there's some sort of hurdle that they want to get around.

44:06But yeah, it's um it's quite tough.

44:09I I think it's it's it's um when I compare my problems

44:14when I was working with Tableau, uh to the problems I have today, like my biggest problems were like the company font doesn't render

44:25Val on uh safari on a certain type of uh mech, uh and uh it seems a bit off.

44:33Now

44:34I I have much bigger problems when it comes to reporting.

44:39Phones are least of my question.

44:41The least of your worries, yeah.

44:44So maybe the other tools have kind of made you appreciate more what Tablair has.

44:50True.

44:51Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

44:52No, it's true.

44:53It happens, it happens.

44:54Um and this is why going back to what I said earlier, I try and engage as little with other tools because then I feel like I I start to compromise on

45:02like what is acceptable.

45:03It's a bit like cars potentially or you know, any any piece of technology, once you've used it for a while, when you have to go to something else, that does feel like there's a compromise and you kind of

45:13Um you come very well wedded to to these devices.

45:16Um so it's really good.

45:18Um the other thing I liked is that you haven't put your blog as the landing item, right?

45:23You know for a lot of people the blog is the landing thing.

45:26So

45:26For you, it's your portfolio first.

45:28Here's my work.

45:29Then you've got an about me page, which is sort of a deeper reflection on you, your story.

45:35And I think it's it's good you lead with your story, like you've got your background.

45:39you you've touched on this already um i in this in this video and then you've got your recognition again just another place for people to um to sort of see

45:49I think the varied nature in which your work works, because I think a lot of people just think about the, you know, nine to five, but actually it's all the other stuff that's super important as well, right?

45:59Yep.

46:00Yeah, and it helps build that kind of picture.

46:03I'll come back to conferences in a second because um in my previous video I asked the previous guests to ask a question for the next guest.

46:12So conferences is uh is is one of those.

46:14So I'll ask you that in a in a second.

46:16And then um the blog the blog is nice because I think the blog is more of a traditional blog, right?

46:22Like it's

46:23Uh it's it's kind of like its own feed.

46:26Um it's very nicely created.

46:28Some of your portfolio items are in here as well, right?

46:31So you've got the you've kind of got the written stories to go with the visualizations, which again I think is

46:37You know, people try and do all of that in one place.

46:40And this this I think is a different approach to that.

46:43And you give some of that story and narrative and context for the inspiration.

46:47So

46:48Um it's it's really nice.

46:50I I really like it.

46:52It's really good, really good, really good.

46:54Um so yeah.

46:55Is there anything you'd improve about the website?

46:58Obviously, we've touched on a few things that you're kind of gonna work on.

47:01Um

47:02You know, now you've done this, there is always this sort of thing where in two years time will you still be happy with it?

47:08Probably not, and it will change, right?

47:11So is are there anything that you can really think, all right, this is what I'm gonna try and fix next

47:16Uh yeah, uh it's it's it's not finished.

47:19Like I still have like uh 20 blog posts that I would like to migrate.

47:24I just didn't find the time

47:26Um but I think it's like a natural thing.

47:29Like uh at the time when I was uh like rebanding my other, I was happy with that.

47:35Uh and I was like uh that's the best I could do now

47:38Uh but I think it's natural that um like uh people evolve and like to showcase something else currently.

47:46I don't know.

47:48I should definitely have a contact section which I forgot

47:52But uh I'm like it's it's really hard to find time these days to do anything nice.

47:59So

48:00Yeah.

48:00I did a uh a meta vis on my vises and uh I think my

48:07Creativity peaked at the right time.

48:10Like most of my visualizations were done during uh COVID and lockdown.

48:16I was like home alone, uh, had nothing else to do.

48:21So it was

48:22It was the perfect time to build a portfolio and uh spend time better than just uh, I don't know, watching TV or agonizing

48:32Yeah.

48:32Um so for me I think that was the right time.

48:36Uh but uh I I hardly find time these days for

48:42Extra stuff on top of my day-to-day work.

48:45It is quite tough, right?

48:46And um there is a little bit about that in

48:50I think this is sort of advice to let's say, you know, people who are new to the field and also new to profession, you know, both of those at the same time, which is

49:00When you're young there's a lot of time and energy and passion that that can comes with all of that.

49:05And you kind of throw yourself fully you've you throw your whole self into that sort of

49:09uh journey and that learning right and as time goes on naturally life moves on uh career changes family uh life other goals other aspirations travel whatever they may be

49:21There are other things beyond just the thing, the thing that sort of got you started along this road.

49:27And they all compete for space and time.

49:29And I think it's very right to say that look, yeah.

49:32there comes a time where you do deprioritize this over other things because in many way in many ways we're all on the journey.

49:40And I think

49:41I always like to tell people don't don't feel bad that, you know, you were, you know, really pushing hard on this tableau thing and then you you stopped for a while to do something else or

49:52uh you know if you're a tableau ambassador or whatever or if you're just part of a community or you do speaking or you do some you know training anything like that

50:00It's okay to start and stop and then come back to it or start and stop and realize it's not for you.

50:05Yeah.

50:05I I know a lot of people like feel guilty when uh uh they don't uh publish a visualization for like a month or so.

50:15Luckily I never felt it.

50:17I feel really grateful that I I I was a Zen master once.

50:22Um I didn't take it for granted.

50:24I think

50:26I spent a lot of time trying to achieve this, never even dreamed of uh this happening.

50:32But on the other hand, I'm not a Zen master or a Tableau visionary anymore.

50:37Uh but like

50:39I I do travel a lot.

50:41I enjoy living, working, learning the new language.

50:47Yeah.

50:49Everything is just as good, just in a in a different way.

50:53And maybe I don't know one day this will be my main focus again.

51:00We'll see.

51:00Uh I never felt guilty about not publishing uh visit or putting content out there

51:07I don't think I will be forgotten or like lose my career.

51:12Uh if I want.

51:13We'll see how it goes.

51:15Your your work is timeless and I think I'll say this.

51:18I've always had this belief

51:20that Tableau Visionaries or Zenmasters, whatever they used to be called, should be a one-time thing.

51:26Because in many ways it is

51:30If I'm brutally honest, your work still makes you a visionary in my perspective.

51:36Like I've like if I go look at your portfolio and I say, oh, who else does stuff like this?

51:42Uh the answer is no one.

51:43Like people get close, people do similar things, people can be as creative, but you have your own unique style.

51:49And once you've been recognized for that, that is yours.

51:52No one can take it away, right?

51:53Um

51:54And so I I've always thought it should just be a one-time thing.

51:57It should be like a uh like you've achieved this level.

52:00Well done.

52:01Let's celebrate it.

52:03End of discussion.

52:05It's it's the repeated thing about it that I think actually creates that guilt.

52:09It creates that sort of sense of um

52:13duty, which is maybe un un unjust and yeah.

52:17It can it can make people feel a bit um if if

52:20People feel like they have to justify not being it, right?

52:23And I think that's not a good thing, 'cause I I don't see it that way at all.

52:27Um Yeah

52:28Yeah, it's very interesting.

52:30It's a very interesting dynamic.

52:31I I have to be careful what I say 'cause I know some people are very passionate about it and think think think different views, but nonetheless.

52:38You're still a visionary in my eyes, whether or not you have the title of the work.

52:42I think like show me a better portfolio and we can talk um uh from a from from a visionary and we can talk because I yeah, you you've you've done some incredible work here

52:51Um if I come back to um the question I was gonna ask you.

52:55So this was this is a question about uh conferences and uh stuff.

53:00Have you been to Tableau conferences in the past?

53:03Uh I think you have been, but uh

53:04Like which ones have you have you attended?

53:06Which ones were sort of the ones that um uh you know stood out to you?

53:12No, I never go.

53:13You never been?

53:14Interesting.

53:15So not even like a local no not even like a local conference in in your region?

53:20Uh uh

53:21Official tableau conferences I never been to.

53:24Let's not count uh the online uh app.

53:28Yeah, no, those don't count.

53:29Those don't count.

53:31I used to event uh tag events uh when I was still living in Budapest because uh it was like our company or IVEP

53:41uh a fellow uh Tableau practitioner uh who who organized them and they were really good.

53:48Uh that was a really good community.

53:50And the only bigger event uh I attended was uh the

53:56Uh the visit Berlin uh conference this year and maybe I'm going to London this year.

54:03Yeah, amazing.

54:05If you can make London, that'd be great.

54:07I'll be there.

54:08So

54:08It'd be nice to meet you in person um as well there.

54:11I think it's conferences are a bit difficult to justify, if I'm honest.

54:16Like the let me be let me be clear to to everyone.

54:19I'm not saying that everyone has to get to conference because

54:22For many people, it's their work that's gonna support them to go to conference and then for their work to justify the expense and time is quite a big hurdle.

54:31Yes, sometimes you get discounts, but no one has the flexibility to say book their Tableau conference seven months in advance.

54:39Sometimes budgets don't work like that.

54:41So

54:41I toss you accept that it is in some cases a privilege, right?

54:45You have to have a company that's really supportive, has a real passion in Tableau, and then on top of that has the budget.

54:52to spend sometimes $3,000 on one individual to go to a conference when in actual fact, you know, $3,000 can buy 10 people yearly access to Udemy.

55:02And the company thinks about it for one second and goes

55:05Here's his his yearly access to Udemy instead for ten people, right?

55:09Because they just the budgets go further.

55:11So it can be tough.

55:13Um and a lot of people who talk very valiantly about conference

55:18have that support, have that coverage and they find it very easy to be able to justify that.

55:23So I I never want to make people feel bad for not going to come

55:26Yeah, I mean uh if I ever got uh like a free ticket to to a Tableau conference to travel to the US, uh don't have to take any holidays, everything is paid for

55:38I would never thought about that, but for me it was never the case.

55:41Like none of my companies would have financed uh the tickets going there.

55:48Uh it would have been my own holiday.

55:50So

55:51That was uh th this is why I never went, but not because like I don't want to.

55:56Um Yeah, the opportunity doesn't doesn't quite fit.

55:59And I think it's important to explain that to people.

56:02But um

56:03If you can make Europe or London, um be amazing.

56:06Uh we will find we'll host you, we'll we'll do some fun stuff, uh I'm sure.

56:10So many people are thinking about it, and I'm I'm quite excited.

56:13I feel like this is the actual conference to go to now.

56:16Like

56:16Um I know a lot of people didn't go to the American conference just past, so this might be a great opportunity to kind of have a second end of this year.

56:24I will try to go, it's already in the talks.

56:27So Good.

56:29If if we can help in any way, if you're watching this and you're you're debating whether Judith should go to conference or not, Tableau Tim says

56:36She should.

56:37Uh I don't know if that helps at at all.

56:40If if not, I um apologize.

56:42But yeah, um no, I think uh you'd be

56:45you'd be very much welcomed um at conference.

56:48So yeah, I guess before we finish off, let me uh let me do this one thing.

56:52Let me come off screen sharing

56:54Yeah, so yeah, before we finish off, I guess do you do you have any sort of uh final final remarks, anything you'd like to to to sort of

57:03s share to people.

57:04I I think one thing I always like to do is I get the guest to ask a question for the next guest.

57:12So the question you answered was about conference.

57:15Um

57:16I'm gonna ask you to ask the next person a question.

57:19You don't know who the person will be, but you'll find out at some point in the future.

57:22I borrowed this from Stephen Bartlett.

57:24It's very uh it's very much his thing.

57:26He gets them to write in his diary a question for the next one, so yeah.

57:30If there's a question you'd you'd it can be about Tableau, it can be about anything data related, I guess.

57:35Um anything about the industry.

57:36It doesn't have to be Tableau

57:38What would you ask someone?

57:39But chances are that uh the next person who will be the guest would be working in tableau or data visualization line.

57:49Yeah, yeah, highly likely, highly likely, yeah.

57:52Okay, then I think my question would be like what project would you do if you don't have like any options?

58:01You could get all the data you want.

58:04There are no like design aspects that limit uh your

58:11uh creative energies, what would be the project?

58:15That's an amazing question.

58:16That is like, yeah, that is a very good question.

58:21Because I think everyone dreams up of these like

58:24Monumental like opportunities to just bring together either data sets they've not had a chance to work with or use a capability they've not had a chance to work with.

58:37That's literally it.

58:38I think for me, if I was to answer this question, it would be around quantified self.

58:47Um like personal data.

58:49So if I could get all my data from every single company that has my data

58:55And I had no limit to the amount of storage, database, whatever.

59:03The ultimate project would be to put it all into a database.

59:07clean it and build like the ultimate like quantified self narrative of like my life over a period of time.

59:16I think it has to be focused on events.

59:19But you want to be able to sort of focus in on specific things, but having that data model to do that would be, I think, the most interesting thing for me.

59:26Um

59:27I find business data or just anything other than my own data quite challenging to to not to understand but to have a connection with because

59:39It's always about something else.

59:41It's not something that I've had an input into and created.

59:44So fast moving consumer goods loved it, super passionate.

59:46I could go to the shop and pick it up off the shelf and be like, oh, look at that, my transactions in there.

59:50But no

59:51Um my own personal data, I know exactly the narratives, I know all the stories, I know all of that.

59:58So that would be my

59:59But anyway, um I think it would be similar for me as well.

60:02Like uh you know when you are just uh walking about uh uh around town doing your stuff

60:09And someone takes a picture because they are tourists.

60:13I I want to have a visualization about all those people's pictures I'm in.

60:19Uh that I don't know.

60:22Maybe I don't know there's uh uh a picture on the walls of a I don't know Chinese family

60:29Uh and I'm in the background uh on the wall.

60:33Like it would be super interesting to know.

60:36That is, that is a great god, I hadn't thought of that.

60:40Yeah

60:41That is a very good one.

60:42I I have to say you I can tell you've got a very creative mind.

60:45You're not very like um you yeah, you you you're not sort of hindered by like past experience.

60:51You have a very open expanse of how you think about questions.

60:54Uh that's a great suggestion.

60:55Like.

60:56And there must be hundreds, like thousands.

60:58Because yeah, we all take photos.

61:00I mean I I look at my photos.

61:02How many random people are in them?

61:03Are there even some people that

61:05are random that have been spotted twice in my faces.

61:08I've actually had that.

61:09Face recognition pulls up this person twice and I'm like, but I was in two completely different places.

61:15And it's the same person.

61:16How weird is that?

61:18Um, you know, you bump into your life partners.

61:20How many times did you meet your life partner before you actually met them, right?

61:26Like that's another wild

61:28Like visualization I'd love to do.

61:30Like what was the closest I got to my wife before I met her for the first time?

61:34Yeah.

61:34That's a great that's a great like little um

61:37A piece of yeah.

61:39We'll never know.

61:40Maybe we will.

61:40Who knows?

61:41AI is on the way, right?

61:45Yeah.

61:46Thankfully, I think back in the day data wasn't collected that well.

61:49So maybe we're okay for that.

61:50But yeah.

61:51Listen, thank you so much for your time.

61:53It's been it's been incredible.

61:55Thank you for sharing your sort of thoughts about your portfolio.

61:58Um you've made me think about so many like great things I'm gonna have to go away and think about as well now, which is which is great.

62:04But in specifically your portfolio, I think it's amazing.

62:07Um I think it gives lots of people

62:11an opportunity in the framework to think about people who are starting in the field, maybe gives them a framework to say, hey, I don't just have to go and post everything to LinkedIn.

62:23I don't have to just go and do it on X.

62:25I can build my own space to go and do that and I curate that story, I curate that narrative, and for twelve dollars or fifteen dollars I can get someone in Etsy to

62:34Do an amazing illustration that's better than anything AI would have done.

62:37For the same price, actually.

62:38AI services around that much per month, right?

62:42Yeah.

62:42So yeah, yeah.

62:44Good stuff.

62:45Thank you very much for your time.

62:46I really appreciate it.

62:47Thank you too.

62:48And uh you could witness like under an hour how Berlin went from summer to winter.

62:54I was about to say, like it has gone completely dark

62:59Uh completely dark.

63:01Like there's uh nothing out there like I can see.

63:05Um

63:07I thought the lights had gone out in your room or there's a patent or something.

63:11No, it's dead dark.

63:12Like uh maybe the apocalypse is coming and uh it's useless to talk about future uh database projects.